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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Admin |
Posted - 08/02/2005 : 10:33:49 PM
AANR promotes law change that imprisons non-AANR nudists in Maryland
Most of us expect AANR to follow its mission statement, namely, to protect nude recreation and nude living in the Americas. Sadly, when the American Association for Nude Recreation gets an opportunity to insert protecting language in this anti-nudity bill, it is only those paying AANR that benefit, and all other nudist-friendly businesses in Maryland can enjoy 6 months imprisonment and a $500 fine for allowing nudity without AANR's blessing. Read it yourself, and see if you don't agree with Kevin's commentary in the next message following. Comments are most welcome. Is this what you expected from AANR?
Please participate in the poll by clicking This Link.
Listen along, starting at 1:22:15, to the Maryland Senate, discussing language provided by AANR
RealPlayer LISTEN
Transcription by Kevin admin@nudist-resorts.org
1:22:15
Senate Bill 224, Senator Exum and others, "Municipal Corporations - Regulation of Nudity and Sexual Displays", favorable with 2 amendments.
Ok, this is a Senate Bill. Chair recognizes distinguished lady Senator from Allegany County.
Um, I am, um presenting this bill.
Floor leader, you may proceed.
Ok?
Yes, ma'am.
Ok. As amended this bill, uh authorizes the legislative bodies of a municipal corporation to adopt ordinances for the licensing control location and maintenance of a business that allows on its premises an activity of nudity. This is enabling legislation. Uh, we uh, it has uh two uh amendments. The first amendment is technical, and the second amendment increases the penalties and exemptions um, for events uh, chartered by the A.A.N.R. I move favor— ask you for a favorable on the amendments and uh, accept a favorable on the committee report.
On the amendments, Senator.
Thank you very much. Mr President, members of the— of the Senate. Uh, this bill came in as a municipal association bill, to as enabling legislation to allow them to promolgate rules and regulations or laws or whatever dealing with nudi— what there were nudity clubs and what-have-you that would be in a municipality. This amendment, I would oppose this amendment and ask the ah ruh ... first of all, I'd like to make a motion to oppose this amendment. I'd like to ask the chairman are these amendments separable?
Uh-?
The chairman here, are these amendments separable?
It's all one amendment.
It's all one amendment. Ok, thank you. I— I would oppose the amendment, ask the body to oppose this amendment, to strip these am— not adopt these amendments because they do not deal with the bill. The— the problem is this is an enabling legislation and we ought to let, if there is a problem, them to go to whatever municipality that they might be located in, and argue their case before the municipality, and not put prohibitions...
Senator, why don't you explain how the amendments affected your bill? What do the amendments do that affect your intent of your bill?
Well, it prohibits uh, the municipalities from making laws dealing with these nudidist clubs.
Ah, I disagree with that. Um, the main part of the amendment is to increase the penalties to five hundred dollars.
It said in the...
...and six months imprisonment.
It says in section (c) "an ordinance adopted under this section may not apply to any event charted by the American Association for Nude Recreation."
That's to exempt nudist camps I think.
That's correct! Fo— that's correct. For it's my understanding there are no nudist camps in municipalities, is what I've been told.
No, wh...
So let's, let's let's yield to the ...
These are...
The floor leader go ahead...
What we are talking about are highly regulated national organization of family nudist camps. Um, or, um, nudist ah facilities, and the bill is to help them to make sure that they are not, um pushed out. [Off-mic comment] ...Believe me I have two in my district and nobody even knows they're there!
[Many people laughing]
They told me!
They voted Republican last time, I know that! Ha ha ha ha....
[Laughter lingers]
I ask you to resist this uh, motion for the uh amendment, the amendment is uh, is fine, it does not, it does not uh impinge upon the, what the bill intended to do, it's a very good bill because of the fact that it, um, it helps the uh municipalities and um, [off-mic comment] [beginning to laugh] helps the municipalities and um, and controlling the uh, go-go clubs and things like that that are going on right now.
And let's, the distinguished lady's here from Harford <inaudible>... go ahead.
Thank you Mr President. Would the floor leader yield?
Yes.
So, I know that, and I know only because, um, [many people laughing again] I too, was told! Um, too much information. Um, we have one in, in Harford County too. And, nobody, I mean they— they purposely stay to themselves. They have high fences. They— they're not interested in bothering anybody.
And they're quite different from the people that are trying to do this for profit, um, totally different.
No, I mean I think there's several websites that you can go on, where they're families.
They are—they're family clubs.
[Off-mic comment]
Yes, that's true.
And they want to stay to themselves, they don't want anybody to wander upon their s—, their campground or whatever it is. They're totally protective of that, they don't want to offend anybody, and they really don't want you to, eh, they do not want people to know where they are, and um, they make it almost im—, very hard for you to even figure out what it is they are.
Yeah, I...I would urge it, a green vote...
It's very difficult to get in the fences, uh there's, they're locked.
Thank you.
Gentleman from Charles County.
...<inaudible> would the floor leader yield?
Sure!
You know, I , before I vote on these amendments, for 'em or against, and I want to know the bare facts here! [Laughter] I look at the exemption and it's for the, it's for the "American Association for Nude Recreation". Can you describe for me what "nude recreation" is? I have no idea, of how far it goes!
Sir, I— I have no idea.
I know, I know what recreation means to me! He he. [Light laughter] Do you know what...?
Sir, I have no—idea—either.
So this would... so we're going to pass something that we have no idea what "nude recreation" entails?
Well... uh, do you really want to know?
I mean uh, I mean... <snicker>
Uh, what, I'm sorry, what were you...?
No, no, you can scratch that last one. Thank you very much.
Questions on the amendments. On the amendments. The Senator from, from Bowie.
Thank you Mr President, um...
Prince George's County.
I'd like to support the um, motion by my colleague from Prince George's County to "strip" this amendment. [Laugher all around] Ha ha, ha ha ha ha. Thank you.
The Senator from the Capitol city of Annapolis.
Actually, the uh, Mr President, I have a real question. Um, would the floor leader yield, please?
Yes.
Um, I'm just, I'm just curious. Uh, I know that Anne Arundel County has two facilities that might fall under this category, and I'm just curious what effect the bill and this amendment will have on what's going on within Anne Arundel County. Cause in the, cause the delegation hadn't had a chance to really look at this, and what the effect might be.
The— the organization, um, was concerned because when this bill—if the bill passed without the amendment—that they would not be able to, um, rent out a facility and use it for um, a winter event. In— in a way that it would, that it would be extremely discreet. It would— it would not allow them to do that. And that was the reason for the amendment.
So— so, in other words, if I'm understanding what you're saying— this um, entity, Sunny Acres or whatever they call themselves, um, it's wintertime, um, and they want to have an event some place indoors...
A private event...
A private event, indoors...
Indoors.
...this would allow them to go like to the Mariott rent the ballroom? Uh, I mean...?
Uh, only if the place was completely shut away from, um, so that no one could wander in.
So, but essentially this— this— this opens, uh, a pretty wide door, I mean, to the... for these kinds of events to go outside of their normal compound. Now I know their compound's pretty well enclosed and secluded but, the— the net effect of this will mean they can leave that compound to have events in some other location, um, wherever. Is that what this does?
Y-yes.
We're talking about an organization though, that is a nationally recognized organization, um, we're not talking about, uh, just any group.
Well I understand that but, this would seem to have some significant impact, I mean the fact that now this organization, entity, whatever you want to call it, could then, um, go outside their compound, where now they're pretty well, um, forced to confine their activities to that, to that site, and it would seem that what we're doing here with this amendment is uh, is opening up the number of venues that would, that would be available to them. I'm not sure that's a good idea.
Are you asking a question or are you speaking to the bill?
Well, yeah, I'm uh, I guess the question you answered was it does open up, uh any number of venues provided they can be secured. Um, but they don't have ...
Provided it would be secure. Only...
But they don't have to be inside the compound that, that, would, that they own. Ok, thank you.
The distinguished lady Senator from Prince George's has now spoken on the bill.
Thank you Mr President. I, too, want to join um, my colleagues from Prince George's County in supporting um, uh the Senator from Prince George's County District 24 in stripping the amendment because, really um, what the effect of those amendments will do is, um provide unintended consequences, uh, of allowing fly-by-night, uh, strip clubs to come into municipalities and open up for events. The American Association for Nude Recreation, um, does appear to be a credible, uh, organization, and while there may be limited locations at this point in time, um, the legislation will enable individuals, according to their website, who want to expand club locations, or expand opportunities for events, to simply do so by joining the organization. Joining the organization means paying a membership fee. And then, uh, uh, coordinating with the organization to then conduct an event. So I think this will have unintended consequences that we who have municipalities in our counties, and in our districts, have fought long and hard to eliminate, uh, the dissatisfaction of having, ah, organizations or businesses that do conduct nude and sexual display activities. Thank you.
Thank you. Has anyone else who has not spoken on this issue wish to speak?
Senator from Cal Frederick.
Thank you Mr President. Thank you. Ladies and gentleman I want you to, if you can look at the, the reprint on the computer as to how this reads with the amendment, the original language says that the penalty is twenty five dollars. If someone should violate this ordinance, only twenty five dollars. The amendment states that they are subject to imprisonment, not to exceed six months, and a fine of not less than five hundred dollars. So, the amendment attempts to corral, as the lady from Prince George's said, identify a legitimate organization, um, something that you know I gather is, is ... I don't know it's... they've been doing it for years, and apparently there's some, um, conclaves or some operations in Anne Arundel County , I guess, Harford County, um, and obviously they've kept their locations a successful secret. Uh, but apparently it's a national organization that's recognized. And, um, the amendment takes the penalty from twenty five dollars, if an organization violates the rule, it frankly allows imprisonment and it allows a five hundred dollar fine. You know if you do against the amendment, then what point is it to have a tiger in this form of the bill, with no teeth? Twenty five dollars to an organization that might be running some type of club that you don't want in your community, is absolutely worthless. It's absolutely worthless. I think based on the way that we went the other day with a bill we had, that's minimum wage for three employees. So, twenty five dollars fine is what you'll end up with if you pass the bill without the amendment. It needs the teeth of imprisonment and a five hundred dollar fine. So I urge that you support the amendment.
Is there anyone who has not spoke on this issue that wishes to be heard?
Senator from College Park, East George's County.
Thank you very much. You know, this uh bill as it first came in was the top legislative priority of a group in Prince George's County. The reason I know about this is this organization has been getting together its uh, the uh, municipal association, Prince George's County Municipal Association. The President of that organization happens to be a Laurel city council member in my district. Uh, he's sitting there, he's now the president, and this was, I commend them for getting everything together. And the ideas, and you can hear it from the other folks in Prince George's County, we've been talking about this since the summertime, and this originally came in as just an opportunity for them to be able to regulate these, these uh, displays of nudity in the district. We thought we were all very supportive of it, we wanted to continue to do it, and we see these amendments as, as sort of clouding everybody's view of this bill. Uh, I just talked to my good friend Senator from uh, my neighboring district, and he said that the uh, the organization is fine with the increased penalties, they don't have any problem with that, moving from twenty five to five hundred dollars. But this other part, dealing with this, this organization just clouds it all. And I, you know I think that, uh, we have to really consider taking this amendment off. And I would ah, support taking that amendment off.
Ok. A green vote will adopt the amendments, <ahem> a red vote will reject them. Clerk will call the role.
Mr President? <tone sounds>
Has everyone recorded the vote?
Mr President? ...President? Have you...?
Question on the committee amendments. The question is on the committee amendments.
Mr. President.
Senator from Prince George's...
Let me explain my vote. Uh, this amendment was offered in the House, and it was ah, defeated in the committee, ah. And, um, the unintended consequences we'd be happy on third reader to offer an amendment if you defeat this amendment to increase the fine, which we could put on on third reader.
Ok. Has everyone recorded the vote? Anyone wish to change their vote? And explained the vote, if not, the clerk—will take—the call.
Twenty affirmative, twenty-three in the negative, the Senator's amendment fails. The question is now the favored committee report, Senator. On the favored committee report, any discussion? All in favor aye, opposed no, the favored committee report is adopted. Further amendments, are there further amendments to the bill to the title? Hearing none, Senate Bill 224 is ordered. Print it for third reading.
1:38:22
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| nudesunguy |
Posted - 08/13/2012 : 10:19:55 AM
Yep, money makes the world go round. I don't see this changing anytime soon.
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| hernandocpl |
Posted - 08/13/2012 : 06:44:23 AM
AS always its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and IF you really think otherwise, your very naive
Live love and have fun |
| Bob Knows |
Posted - 08/13/2012 : 12:56:41 AM
Yes. AANR is run by resort owners. Their mission is to keep general nudity illegal so people will only be able to go naked at an AANR resort. Laws against public nudity are the feed stock of AANR profits. Its quite different from the goals of many actual nudists and TNS.
AANR walks a fine line. They want nudity to be legal at private resorts run by their member clubs, but illegal on public parks or streets so we have to pay them and their member clubs to get naked. If public nudity ever becomes legal the nudist resorts would cease to have a reason to exist, or would have to compete straight up with other resorts. |
| rabbitnbunny |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 3:20:06 PM
Only someone with their head firmly planted in the sand, believes AANR cares about all nudists. They only care about their paying membership and resorts. The only time they really put their money where their mouth is, is when a change in the law effects their cash cows (resorts). If it's nude beaches, or generations old nude use natural areas, you get nothing from AANR apart from a little lip service to make themselves look good.
I've seen them send delegations to state assemblies if a law is proposed that will affect them, or their resorts. If a law will affect beaches and such, they MIGHT send a letter. Whoopdie fizz. |
| Admin |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 6:20:49 PM
I agree and support those who support many organizations. That's freedom after all. I'm still surprised how reluctant people are to criticize AANR, even if it's well placed. If I could change one thing, it would be this heavy-handed and destructive approach on the part of AANR. Without it, they could come into a true leadership role, with the extra respect that brings.
Think this one through, everyone. If AANR had been successful in Maryland (which they only failed by, what, 2 votes?), TNS would have to have each TNS Gathering attendee hold a valid AANR card before they could guarantee protection from arrest should they choose to meet in Maryland. AANR actually worked to support that increase of fines from $25 to $500, and the added imprisonment of 6 months. They must have realized the effect this would have on all Maryland nudists supporting TNS, but they just lumped all those folks in with the nude dance bars as appropriate targets for imprisonment.
I am deeply disappointed in AANR, in whom we have trusted the future of nudism. Who in those offices decided the absolute removal of TNS and other competitors in Maryland was in the best interest of nude recreation in the Americas? Are they hurting so much for membership that this is necessary?
Let me repeat, AANR has accomplished amazing things and AANR members have reason to be proud. But using heavy-handed political tactics behind the scenes just serves to keep other organizations from ever trusting or working with AANR.
Divided often soon means conquered. |
| vealj |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 3:36:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
This nudist, and I'm sure many others, prefer choices in organizations to support. The Naturist Society, BEACHES (Haulover), and several other organizations deserving respect for what they've done for nudism, have every right AANR has to hold meetings for nudists to gather.
Or DON'T they?
Yes they do for sure but I get real tired of all the bickering between the two organizations. We don't have enough card-carrying nudists in this country to afford infighting among the various groups trying to put forth our cause which this nudist believes should be the unfettered right to enjoy a nude lifestyle as long as we don't harm others. Note: It is NOT harmful to anyone to just see a nude body despite what the prudes running this country might say.
Unfortunately, members of most of the nudist groups tend to get side-tracked amongst themselves arguing about how we go about achieving or just preserving what rights we have left.
I am like Cheri, I support every nudist group I can find. I am a member of AANR, TNS, FCN, CCBN, INF, NAC, CFI, ANRL and every other pro-nudist group I come across.
Take care and ...
Keep it Bare !!!
- veal
Web:http://www.vealj.com/naturist.html
Nudist Blog: http://360.yahoo.com/vealj |
| Cheri |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 09:55:24 AM
TNS does have gatherings to which TNS membership is requested.
The best thing, if you can afford it, would be support TNS as well as AANR and all organizations that support our way of life PLUS the American Nudist Research Library and the Naturist Action Committee.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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| Admin |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 04:10:18 AM
One voice, and only one voice allowed by law, equals dictatorship. I support choices.
One should be able to hold a membership card from The Naturist Society, for instance, and be admitted to organized events without fear of arrest.
Would you allow AANR to put TNS out of business, unable to even call a TNS Gathering without everyone paying AANR? Should AANR be allowed to abuse the place of respect WE elevated them to with our dues money, only to see TNS reduced to another nudist magazine publisher?
I feel AANR lying to the Senators about what is valid in nudism (only AANR) is a great disservice to us all.
This nudist, and I'm sure many others, prefer choices in organizations to support. The Naturist Society, BEACHES (Haulover), and several other organizations deserving respect for what they've done for nudism, have every right AANR has to hold meetings for nudists to gather.
Or DON'T they? |
| go n nude |
Posted - 05/14/2006 : 4:22:56 PM
Disorganized nudity will be just that. One voice for all who belong to the American Association for Nude Recreation representing all members in Canada and North America. The bigger the voice the louder it becomes, I'm sure they'll support all members in fact they do. Join this Association to trully impact our rights and insure we have them to enjoy our Lifestyle.
go n nude |
| GeeWilly |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 1:09:59 PM
Nudity may not be a stated fundamental right, as such, but it may tag along with the additional fundamental right of privacy that exists alongside specifically mentioned constitutional rights.
Which is a lengthy manner of saying that while it may not be required, it seems probable that it may not be denied (provided such is confined to reasonably limited environments.)
Education both as to the positive results of nudism and as to just what naturism is NOT is clearly mandatory. Just reading Admin's record of the Maryland legislature at work questions whether that body knows what the AANR is. There seems almost an assumption that AANR stands for ALL nudist activities in this country.
Sorry, curious1, that when you took off your clothes to go nude, so to speak, no weapons of mass destruction were found. This particular forum branch is discussing a political point relevant to nudism. Can't be helped. |
| Admin |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 11:58:09 PM
I do appreciate some of the creative minds we have here. I just thought we'd all like to know that even the most trusted nudist organization we've all been paying into for years sometimes uses our own money to help severely fine and imprison those that won't pay them to be nudists.
I wouldn't say so if it didn't happen on the floor of the Maryland Senate.
You shouldn't have to pay to be nude with like minded people, in appropriate places compatible with local customs.
Perhaps we need an AANR Watchdog Group, to keep those juicy back office opportunities from getting out of hand, and becoming further examples of corporate sellout.
I transcribed that long piece from the actual live recordings to bring to light what REALLY HAPPENS when our rights are on the line, and who really benefits. It should be better for ALL nudists, not just certain PAYING nudists at the expense and imprisonment of others.
Just wanted to keep this thread on topic. If enough people speak out about this, our awareness can change a lot. |
| NaturistDoc |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 11:47:12 AM
Curious1,
Yeah, you're right, I should have skipped the political screed. Be assured it wasn't hateful - I even voted for the guy once, but like a lot of people, I've become disillusioned. Still, that's a subject for another forum. What this country really needs is a skinny-dipping President, something we haven't had since LBJ. Surely we can agree on that! |
| vealj |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 10:04:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by NaturistDoc
...As a battered veteran of the late-60's anti-war protests, I am in profound agreement with Cheri. Persistent, patient, repectful education and negotiation with the Powers That Be will eventually get the job done. An in-your-face approach, while more fun in the short term, tends to confirm peoples' opinions that we nudists/naturists are lunatics at best, sociopathic perverts at worst.
We have been persuing a course of continued negotiation with the "Powers That Be", educating the public and being persistent since the '30s. You have to ask yourself, do we have more legal nude beaches and locales since the original XB51 beach? Nudism is considered a "fringe" lifestyle by most Americans and the only real progress in 70 years has been made by those willing to risk upsetting the majority in this country. Where would we be if the original nudists in this country weren't willing to go against prevailing customs and risk arrest and jail time to form the first nudist clubs? I suspect that men would also be wearing tee shirts to the beach since topless men were also outlawed by the majority at the time.
I'm all for negotiation where it has chance to bring about change but I just don't see where we've made all that much progress in the past 70 years. There are no laws on the books anywhere that actually promote nude living or nude beaches. This is after years of AANR's Government Affairs committees hob knobbing with goverment officials and such. The best either TNS or AANR has been able to come up with is that maybe park rangers will look the other way if no complaints are filed.
I think there is room for both incremental improvement in our freedoms through negotiations but I am also supportive of anyone who pushes a more aggressive stance since historically this seems to work best in gaining freedoms. I am a great fan of Steve Gough and the original Bare Guy in Berkely.
Take care and ... Keep it Bare !!!
- veal
Take care and ...
Keep it Bare !!!
- veal
Web:http://www.vealj.com/naturist.html
Nudist Blog: http://360.yahoo.com/vealj |
| Cheri |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 09:49:44 AM
There are some topics in many forums I'd prefer to not read. That's one reason I'm glad there are headings.
:) Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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| curious1 |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 06:19:36 AM
I hope this is the last time we get hateful political analogies here. I am not reading the forum to see people's political views but to discuss nudisum. It's one thing when it is on the topic, but another when it is just an excuse to drop your political self-righteousness into the discussion. |
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