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| Digital_Cowboy |
Posted - 02/16/2008 : 2:21:15 PM
In various threads we’ve had people (usually the same one’s over and over again) say or imply that certain types of people or groups of people “can’t” be nudists. Usually referring to swingers, exhibitionists, and voyeurs, or similar types of people. I would like to know why the frell not?
Why the frell can’t a swinger also be a nudist? Why do the two lifestyles have to exclude the other? Why can’t an exhibitionist or voyeur also be a nudist? As I said before IF you own a TV or go to the movies, guess what you’re a voyeur.
These same people are also quick to point out that if one thinks like this, or feels like this that they’re not “true” nudists. Or likewise IF one does this or that, that again they’re not “true” nudists. Who are they to say who or what a “true” nudist is or isn’t?
Also as I said I was talking with an on-line friend whom for whatever reason believes/feels/thinks that Wiccans can’t be nudists. Her “logic” is/was because nudity and/or sex is/can be an integral part of how they worship/practice. Again why the frell not? What makes the two incompatible?
Why can’t a person regardless of their lifestyle, who is also comfortable with their body or the human body in general also be a nudist. To me that has been the defining attribute of a nudist i.e. a person who is comfortable with their body. And doesn’t have the hang-ups that “most” people appear to have with going nude either at home alone, or in a social setting.
Let’s look at exhibitionists, who are at least on some level comfortable with their bodies. Yes, maybe for some of them it starts out being done for a thrill sexual or otherwise. But I’m sure that for some, they just feel the urge to be nude. And it’s just that they choose the wrong time/place to go nude.
Instead of condemning them, why can’t they be “rehabilitated” into a “true” nudist? Also instead of condemning them, wouldn’t it be better if a practicing nudist was to take ‘em under their wing and mentor them? And show them that with the current state of anti-nudity laws, that there is a right time and place for one to go nude. And that they’re not doing social nudism any favors by going nude at times or in places where it isn’t appropriate.
As I asked in one of the other threads why can’t there be room for different lifestyles to co-exist? Also as I said if one thinks about, and was confirmed there are “family friendly” hotels, resorts, amusement parks, etc. That have either knowingly or unknowingly hosted events, or parties that aren’t “family friendly.” Such as I'm sure some would say Disney’s gay pride parade. Does their hosting a gay pride event make them un-family friendly? Sadly in the eyes of some, the answer is yes.
Live Long and Prosper
Herman |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| acoustixman |
Posted - 12/26/2012 : 5:44:42 PM
This got LONG and I am sorry but I want to share these thoughts. I have been scarce lately because a few comments (pretty much right near the subject of this thread) from people I know made me feel a need to introvert and consider my motives... I wanted to think long and hard (seriously no pun here) about whether my motives for naturism are wholesome, and I sort of disappeared from this forum during the process. I feel I have passed my own test, so I am back. Generally my naturist activities consist of hiking, here in the southern Nevada desert. Generally deserted canyon trails where a soul will not be seen for days but also at a nearby Hot Spring (Gold Strike - mentioned by a few including myself elsewhere here). I generally DO NOT cover if I do see someone because I am comfortable that my nudity is "in-context" (hot springs and secluded trail thereto?!) because I think that action is one of guilt or uncertainty. I do respect people and I have conversations with those I meet, and I will cover if they wish. This brings me back to my own self-tempering; was I acting as an "exhibitionist"? Ultimately I felt that my actions represent a peaceful testimony to our beliefs since I am naked and nothing else is 'unusual' although I can't quite gulp down the notion that naturism is 'unusual'; people can see that for themselves and hopefully even if it's just a few, some will be compelled to realize that naturism is indeed wholesome.
Here is what I believe:
Nudism = wholesome inclination to be naked, in general (in the sense of an earnest lifestyle choice).
Naturism = wholesome inclination to be naked outdoors, but kinda the same... Seems to involve a notion that it is OK to be seen [naked] by others who are not affronted or offended. We display self-esteem, confidence, extreme appreciation for the Lord's creation(s), peace, and simplicity/elegance in our lives. Even though this may seem paradoxical, it is almost forgettable at times that naturism actually involves being naked. It is just that simple. Utter wholesomeness and joy.
Naturism/Nudism of course have a social component, but I feel it is not a requirement and a lone naturist in a desert canyon does not lack credibility IMHO.
Exhibitionism = May or may not involve nudity AT ALL. Connotes a virtually OPPOSITE mindset; low self-esteem, narcissism / misplaced pride, encroachment upon others, and uninvited compromise of the peace of others. Exhibitionism that DOES involve nudity is clearly the spirit of the question, so to better focus, it involves poorly timed or placed nudity which may or may not be malicious, and seeks to sexually gratify the 'practitioner' (using this term lightly here). It is inherently offensive because it involves being seen for one's own pleasure without the viewer's consent. It is probably not distinguishable from nudism by non-nudists who will be the ones using instances of exhibitionism as a means to argue against nudism. In still another sense 'nude exhibitionism' can masquerade as "software" in the naturist "operating system" in the lay person's view (just as a piece of malware can masquerade as software in microsoft windows), because from a certain standpoint (that of the prudist) they are not totally disjoint, and that is where it is incumbent upon us all to be regarded as maintaining discipline (e.g. time and place, let alone behaviour).
Swinging, etc... To relate these various sexual lifestyle preferences (each of which may or may not have vast merits of its own) to naturism seems like relating auto racing to steamed broccoli, but that's been covered here already and I don't like to beat dead horses.
What I had a brief struggle with was inclusive of such an idea that if I happen to be naked during a hike (never on highly-traveled or easy trails, basically such that anyone I do see is going to be pretty 'nature-positive' and not 'socially confined'), and it gives me pleasure (such as only the breeze and sunlight can offer) to do so, and then someone happens to see me while I am enjoying such pleasure, am I suddenly an exhibitionist? I say NO, because (a) I am not deriving "gratification" (among other notions being reconciled to wholesome naturism), and (b) they can hopefully see this for themselves and gain a realistic view of what naturism really is about and frankly that's what we need to have happen, almost like a very peaceful campaign for a particular civil right. If I were to [fumble to] put a pair of shorts on even though I assume they have already seen me because I have seen them, I feel that I appear ashamed and THEN perhaps look like an exhibitionist (and arguably perhaps therefore BE one) who just happens to have lost his nerve because he suddenly has a moment of clarity about the offense he was just about to commit.
There is just one other thought that I submit as a question; the one I am still carefully pondering. Suppose the situation arises as I just described, only I could trace my pleasure (still like happiness, not gratification) through my mental pathway as being a result of having been seen naked... Am I THEN an exhibitionist? I think that I still am NOT if I know that the pleasure is being derived from sharing a (hopefully) high-quality snapshot of our lifestyle preference with someone who could benefit from the occurrence. Like it might give someone pleasure to cook someone a meal they have never tasted, or to show someone a favorite song, even to loan a hammer to the neighbor. I mean I'm not going to cook that meal with super-hot peppers for a demure tongue, nor make someone's tender ears bleed with that song's volume setting, nor strike my neighbor with the hammer, any more than I would regress to sexual behavior in front of the stranger, right?
Seeking my role in opening the eyes of the world to the simple harmless pleasure of being naked in our great outdoors. |
| blavan |
Posted - 07/10/2011 : 4:37:04 PM
In a family nudist environment, swingers should not behave any differently than anyone else. There obviously are swingers who are present at nudist resorts which do not promote the swinger lifestyle. As long as non-swingers are not aware of the presence of swingers because their behavior is the same as the behavior of any other nudist then no harm-no foul.
So then a non-swinging nudist would not go to a swingers resort and expect the swingers not to swing in front of them. In a swinger resort, swinging behavior is expected. At a nudist resort swinger behavior is not expected or allowed. Let's support the rights of each group to enjoy what they prefer in the appropriate location for it. Some swingers are nudists. Not all nudists are swingers. As we bring other new nudists into the fold, we ought to be able to promise and deliver to them the environment we say is a reality. Nudity does not = sex. The public must understand that not all nudists are swingers. The public also needs to realise that nudists and swingers are all around them where they live, work, and worship, (yes sitting in the church pew beside you), and the general public is not aware of it.
Being Naked and Being Real |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 07/08/2011 : 03:29:43 AM
Amen, Carmen.
I guess our single interest is more susceptible to corruptions, because we profess nudism. That is a bit different than other interests where there is less controversy. If instead of nudism, we were stamp collectors, and had frequent social events, things might be seen as being more tame by the public. But, just take off our clothes and it's more dicey by nature.
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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| Carmen34 |
Posted - 07/07/2011 : 8:55:40 PM
quote:
[i]... all it takes is one indignant person to make a lot of trouble.
A truism in every walk of life, not just the nudist lifestyle!
"Anything that can be done, can be done better while nude." |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 07/07/2011 : 7:42:13 PM
It may vary from swinger to swinger. I have been to one resort (only one time) and they was a lot of public sensuality being expressed there by some individuals. I suspected they were swingers, but kept that feeling to myself for a while. Later I found out they were swingers alright.
So, it may vary, and perhaps some are better at keeping that tendency to themselves while in public view.
If one cannot keep their arms and hands to themselves at a family nudist resort, (not counting honest affection of an innocent manner)they need to remember that all it takes is one indignant person to make a lot of trouble. Trouble is not what nudism does not need right about now. Witness California's stance on nudist beaches where their gov't has power.
So, if you want to try out swinging in a place meant for it, try a true swinging resort.
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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| nudesunguy |
Posted - 07/07/2011 : 11:43:48 AM
"One can be both a swinger and a nudist, but the test would be that you'd never know they were swingers even though you've been nude with them a hundred times."
This is a true statement. We have two sets of friends like this; we only found out they were swingers by accident. Didn't really change anything.
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| Carmen34 |
Posted - 07/06/2011 : 10:20:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
They might be a nude person, but not a nudist.
This is a great quote, and I just got to use it on another site after a number of guys were hitting on me saying "I am nude at home, and like to get nude on cam, so I am a nudist" when all they wanted was to get into the pants of my daughters and I. ("Pants" being metaphorical in this instance, ja ja ja!)
Thanks Admin for so elegantly summarizing it all!
"Anything that can be done, can be done better while nude." |
| Carmen34 |
Posted - 07/05/2011 : 4:24:54 PM
Deleted my own post, it was redundant with what the Admin posted.
"Anything that can be done, can be done better while nude." |
| boobiebear |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 11:27:14 PM
Admin, I bow to your logic, you bring up valid points and while I still have the mindset that one can be both a swinger and a nudist the two must be seperate. My main point was where I think I read that one could only be one or the other and not both and that is where I disagree. The other points that were brought up very true because as I have stated to others while you can be both, you must use discretion when in the company of others to avoid a scene that might be detrimental to either lifestyle. Maybe one of these days people in the future will be more open to the views and lifestyles of others rather then be so closed minded. |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 09/21/2009 : 8:45:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
discretion means knowing how to avoid embarrassment or distress.
discreet means prudent; discrete means separate.
This is a term used in electronics. E.g., discrete components, versus integrated components.
Applied to nudism, it's a shame, if no other shame in nudism, that other folks are not always open to nudists, thereby we invoke the discretion. It would be nice to be the analogous equivalent to integrated components, and be fully integrated nudists, wherein we really could integrate into our neighborhood, family, and friends. Till then, we maintain our dual identity as textile and nudist people. It would be well never to mix up those two identities.
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."
Thomas Jefferson
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| GrayWolf |
Posted - 09/21/2009 : 3:13:17 PM
Well said Admin!
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| Admin |
Posted - 09/21/2009 : 12:16:28 PM
discretion means knowing how to avoid embarrassment or distress.
discreet means prudent; discrete means separate.
The definition of "nudist" that we tend to support is someone that prefers to be nude in social settings, but balances that with a healthy sense of discretion and etiquette. Therefore, an exhibitionist who exposes themselves to others not expecting it cannot be a nudist. If a swinger has sex in open view at a nudist resort, they have abandoned discretion and can never be considered a nudist. Neither is a swinger who just happens to be nude while swinging where social nudity is the smaller part of the agenda.
They might be a nude person, but not a nudist.
We're not willing to promote the idea that anyone taking their clothes off and behaving sexually is by definition a nudist.
If someone were both a nudist and a swinger, they would have to be interested to keep the two separate, or they would not be a nudist at all. Both nudism and the swinger lifestyle have philosophies of behavior, and each would arguably exclude those who don't practice good discretion and respect for others.
One can be both a swinger and a nudist, but the test would be that you'd never know they were swingers even though you've been nude with them a hundred times. Those that are compelled to share their sexual agenda with everyone who is attractive at the nudist resort are not nudists. They are swingers that enjoy nudity.
Since many define a nudist as a person who at all times keeps social nudity and sexual agendas separate, failure to do so disqualifies one as a nudist in our view. It is the key concept of being a nudist. |
| boobiebear |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 9:22:35 PM
The topic of being a swinger and a nudist is a very interesting topic. I think that I read in one of the other posts that one had to be one or the other, that is not true, a person can be both. The fact is a person or couple can be into the swinging lifestyle and still be a nudist. As a swinger I can say that if you meet someone into the lifestyle you can converse with one another as to the degree of swinging everyone is in to but what no one has mentioned is there is no pressure to participate because NO means NO and is followed religiously. The people who are nudist do so for the freedom of being able to shed their clothing and be as free as the day we all were born with no shame. Everyone has their own set of right or wrong but to put limits on others because it is something that they themselves do not agree with is wrong, yes there are laws and moral codes one must follow but to say a person can only be this way or that way is a choice that they themselves must resolve within themselves. |
| Randall50 |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 3:14:16 PM
Nudism is always beautiful. Some naked bodies are beautiful, others not. The point is that nudism is beautiful. Sometimes it's hard to know who is naked or nude. |
| NakedOpeness |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 11:57:46 AM
My wife and I are swingers, and I am a nudist. She prefers the sexual atmosphere if she's gonna strip. I could care less. I enjoy being naked, whether it's in a non-sexual atmosphere, or an all out orgy! And there are more swingers that are nudists, than there nudists that are swingers :)
Clothing should always be optional! |
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