| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jcmt4 |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 9:46:02 PM
what's the church's stand-point on this? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| old hippie |
Posted - 11/27/2007 : 5:40:29 PM
Yup. It indicates the same thing we have said in several other contexts: naturists, or nudists, are just people. They (we) come in a variety of occupations, colors, IQ scores, political persuasions, religious beliefs, and shoe sizes. And there is no immediate connection between any of these attributes and naturism nor among any of those attributes mutually, so far as I know.
Happy trails,
the ol' hippie
Dum vivimus, vivamus! |
| balataf |
Posted - 09/30/2007 : 3:30:33 PM
Several of the nationalities that have widespread use of dommunity saunas and baths are Catholic, including Lithuanians, Latvians and many Poles. Like the previous comment about widespread nudism in France, this should indicate something. |
| gladdyman |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 4:55:27 PM
I look at it this way , there are catholics sports teams, a group of people with a common religion who get together to play sport.
There could be a group of people who get together to socialise in the nude |
| beachnudist |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 06:53:14 AM
Same applies "It's not the nudity, it's how you handle it." as old hippie said.
If you decided to walk in naked to a church service I am sure that it would not be accepted.
Thats because because nakedness is not part of the accepted norm at church services any more than it is the accepted norm at any place outside of nudist venues. If we practice nudity in places where it is not allowed and/or accepted then we are forcing ourselves on other people who do not understand what we are about. We may wish to make nudity more acceptable and more mainstream but this will not be achieved by shock tactics. |
| old hippie |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 04:24:23 AM
Or, more briefly, "Sin is in the mind of the sinner"
There is no moral deficit in my choice to be nude at the beach; the difficulty arises if another chooses to view that nudity with prurient intent. Notice that Karol Wojtyla's article distinguishes between a sponaneous response and a deliberate act. Thus, if Elle McPherson walked by on the nude beach, my reflex thought of "Wow, hot lady!" is not immediately immoral. If I would choose to entertain that train of thought, and develop some erotic fantasies, I would be heading for moral difficulty.
It's not the nudity, it's how you handle it.
Dum vivimus, vivamus! |
| TheOmne |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 12:37:09 AM
The following is a quote [translated] from "Amor y Responsabilidad" by: Karol Wojtyla, the Cardinal who would become Pope John Paul II. Though it flies in the face of the social mores of Catholicism of the time, most clergy of today, when presented with this quote, fully agree with the Pope. Obviously in the Catholic Church it is becoming more acceptable to be a nudist and it is being recognized that a persons body, made in the likeness of God, should NOT be seen as shameful!
"There is nothing impure in clothing except that which, .... while covering the essential values of the person [the sexual organs], provokes an inevitable reaction toward the person as a possible sexual object of pleasure ....
"The concrete application of this simple and evident principle relies on the individuals, means, and society. Dressing is always a social problem and, therefore, depends on the customs (good or bad). ....
"But this by no means signifies that impurity of body is identified simply with partial or total nudity. There are circumstances in which nudity is not impure. If someone uses it to treat the person as an object of pleasure - even if it is by bad thoughts - he alone is the one who commits an impure act. Impurity of body only occurs when nuditity plays a negative role with respect to the value of the person. One can say that what happens then is a de-personalization ....
"Even knowing that nudity is not identical to impurity of the body, a real interior effort must be made to avoid assuming an impure attitude before a nude body. We should also add that impurity of action is not identical to the spontaneous reaction of sensuality that considers the body and sex as possible objects of joy. The human body per se is not impure, nor is the reaction of sensuality, nor sensuality itself. Impurity begins when the will appropriates the reaction of sensuality and reduces the other person - because of his or her body and sex - to an object of pleasure.
"Since we are speaking of dress in relation to purity and impurity, it is worthwhile to consider the functional role of the dress .... To qualify a way of dressing from the moral point of view, one must take into consideration the function of the determined clothing. We should not qualify partial nudity of the body as impure if there is an objective reason for it use"
(Amor y Responsabilidad, Madrid: Editorial Razon y Fe, 1978, pp. 211-213). |
| agde |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 8:22:31 PM
Yikes! I hope you didn't misunderstand me, jcmt4. "Sins of the flesh" are still very much considered sins -- its just that flesh itself is not sinful!
The nuns and priests I've talked to who are either naturist or understand naturism in the context of Catholic theology are not at all hypocritical! All naturists, whether religious or not, would do well to be as thoughtful, to be as sophisticated in human relationships and to live up to their example in thought, word and deed. |
| agde |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 6:19:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jcmt4
agde's post refers to nudist nuns & priests & with 'naturism not being subject to confession':up to what level of offending is permitted?
Ol'Hippie has got it right, as far as it was explained to me: confession comes into play starting with impure thoughts, since voyeurism demeans by treating others as objects and fantasizing is just as condemned as acting. As to offense, it may occur either by regarding/treating another person with disrespect or by doing something to solicite impure thoughts/behavior from them. No "level" really -- either purity of spirit or not. So Catholics can be nudist, but to avoid confession, they cannot be exhibitionists, voyeurs, swingers or any other "adult activity enthusiasts" that often get confused with nudists. Hmm, perhaps we protestant nudists should promote confession too! |
| old hippie |
Posted - 08/30/2007 : 11:42:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jcmt4
agde's post refers to nudist nuns & priests & with 'naturism not being subject to confession':up to what level of offending is permitted?
Confession is a sacrament instituted for the forgiveness of sin; the only offense it is concerned with is an offense against God. Peoples' hurt feelings are not involved.
I'm not sure that "offending" was mentioned at all; my read on the posting was that these good people who have dedicated their lives to prayer and good work took the time and concern to assure Agde that so far as actual theology is concerned, the condition of nudity is not of itself a sin. One could discuss the extent to which the wrong attitude a priori might lend that condition to be an 'occasion of sin' (other Catholics will recognize the phrase), but that is a different discussion.
I thank agde for the pertinent and consise commentary from Vatican theology. My Jesuit instructors would be proud.
Ol' Hippie
Dum vivimus, vivamus! |
| gladdyman |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 03:17:07 AM
My wife and I are both catholics, we belong to our local sun club, there we have met many people and over time we have found that some are also catholic.
Just in the textile world some are regular church goers and some are not. Who cares we still enjoy the chance to be naked that is the thing that matters. |
| JohnnyBnude |
Posted - 08/20/2007 : 8:48:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jcmt4
i was brought up as a catholic & i am a nudist: am i the only one?
No jcmt4 you are not the only one. I was also raised a catholic. There always seemed to be an underlying tone that nudity=sex=sin. As I matured, and started thinking for myself, I realized that the equation doesn't compute. I think that a lot of Muslim's these days are also questioning the dogma that they are required to bow to, doesn't fit in to the natural order. |
| agde |
Posted - 08/20/2007 : 01:07:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jcmt4
referring to agde's post: would his estimations encompass nuns & priests as well, or just the general congregation?
LOL jcmt4, it is kinda hard to tell about nuns and priests without telltale habits and clerical collars! Anecdotally, there was a group of four very nice middle-aged nuns I once met at a naturist resort in northern Italy, one older priest whom I'd met as a textile in London but ran into in Corsica, and there was a young priest who was part of our nude beach volleyball group in California -- all of whom forgave me for being protestant and none of whom felt naturism was in itself subject to confession. As you know, there are many kinds of priests and nuns, and I suspect supervisory and peer pressures vary considerably depending on context.
The estimations I cited were of course based on surveys of the general populace, but I hear your point. And I love to debate this with Catholic clergy. You can get a sense of the issues by looking at the Vatican Catechism text concerning "modesty". The basic argument is that clothing assists by quieting in others any "risk of unhealthy curiosity" and, in oneself, by guiding "how one looks at others and behaves toward them", thus ensuring mutual dignity. The potential evil is actually in "moral permissiveness" (eg. lustful thought or carnal desire), not in nudity per se, hence "The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to [...] respect for the human person." Naturists couldn't agree more about treating each other with unequivocal dignity, so the finale of my argument would be that Catholics whose pure spirit does not require the crutch of clothing are more solidly saintly than others!
Ok, I'll go back to the religion discussion group now, but you were sounding worried, jcmt4, so thought you'd enjoy knowing that, my estimates aside, you can always feel secure as Catholic and nudist, not to mention impress your priest, by citing Vatican theology!
|
| bluezootnude |
Posted - 08/19/2007 : 04:31:20 AM
Hello im a catholic born and raised perochial school and all. Yes the french are heavely catholic and they have nudists and go topeless all the time at the majority of public places where water is either a pool, river, lake or beach.
I all so want to say people dont think of this offten enough.
In Jesuses home town and in the nearby major cities. there were a mix of different people from different lands walking arround. Greeks most notibally and slaves as well were more often than not Nude. compleately. Jesus hung out arround these people . the apostles even lived with these people. and Jesus didnt rebuke them for being nude. but he did rebuke the ideas of acting apon things that were against god which were the sisn of adultary.and fornication. but just because one was nude didnt mean that he was sinfull.
Wow nude greeks in the towns where jesus lived or preached in or were he made many friends and followers who were of different groups...
dave |
| catbird |
Posted - 08/18/2007 : 6:26:43 PM
BTW I am not Catholic, but I desire to answer Tuffers question.
There isn't anything in the Bible specifically saying that it is a sin to be nude. Most people consider nudism a sin on the basis that nudity = sex, but that isn't Biblical.
I could write a lengthy exposition on that nudity isn't proscribed by the Bible. Briefly clothe the naked means to fulfill the needs of the very poor (including donating used clothes to the Salvation Army). Leviticus says thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of family members, but that means to not have sex with the family members. Also there is Adam and Eve. But in truth God asked Adam, "Who told you that you were naked," and Adam responded that he was ashamed.
Naturally, Catbird |
| Tuffers |
Posted - 08/18/2007 : 11:57:52 AM
Where in your bible does it say that it is a sin to be nude? Just enjoy life as you want to live it. You are a long time dead. |
|
|
