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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Admin |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 12:48:17 PM
Swinger lifestyle rules of engagement
Prepared by the Society for Understanding Nudism and Nudist-Resorts.Org
The following are our best current recommendations for resorts and clubs who choose to host swinger lifestyle groups for events. These suggestions are designed to allow the resort or club to collect the revenue associated with these events, while minimizing friction within the nudism industry.
These recommendations, as displayed, are subject to revision. Last revised 16Aug2009.
Recommendations for Host Resort:
- Be sure that any in-house advertising is acceptable to a conservative guest. Be careful with images or themes that may have a prurient interpretation.
- Avoid the appearance that the host resort is actively promoting the swinger lifestyle. The goal is passive hosting.
- The newsletter should be used to promote only family friendly events. If adult events are to be included, the presentation must be acceptable to your entire clientele.
- Actively oversee any promotions created by the guest groups. Require them to follow these guidelines.
- Promote a balanced message whenever allowing references to the swinger lifestyle. For instance, "Party like a rock star, but please read the house rules before attending our event."
- Keep in mind your advertisements are read by conservatives and swingers alike. Be aware of potential blowback.
- Do not use the host resort website to link to a guest group's website where pornographic images or language is displayed.
- Be aware that people research widely on the internet, and communities compare notes. Nothing stays hidden.
- Assure the public there is a policy in place for lifestyle events. Show consistency in applying that policy.
- Avoid creating the perception that the host resort is promoting to only one demographic, i.e. lifestyle groups.
- If an after party is allowed as part of event advertising, be sure there is no involvement on the part of the host resort to actively promote it.
- Minors and unauthorized guests shall be entirely denied access to swinger lifestyle events at all times.
- When hosting an adult themed event open to in-house guests, adequate cues shall be present at the door of the event to indicate its adult nature, should anyone choose not to enter. "Adult theme party" is preferable to "theme party", if in fact a swinger lifestyle group is hosting.
- Employees shall be forbidden to wear swinger lifestyle insignia or clothing while on duty.
- The host resort shall be diligent that security personnel enforce the no-open-sex rule aggressively and often, especially in light of the possibility of new guests misunderstanding the house rules.
Guest Group requirements:
- Each and every use of the corporate name or logo must be authorized in advance. All guidelines must be followed strictly.
- Advertisement will be clear that the host resort is not the creator or active host of your event. "Nudist resort presents swinger party" would be prohibited.
- The name of the host resort shall be concealed from public view where possible. It is preferred that the actual location be revealed only to those requesting RSVP.
- The terms nudist or naturist shall not be used, since nudists as a group do not like the association. Clothing optional or nude is preferred.
- There shall be a clear reference to the house rules in all written advertising.
- Group members must be informed that daytime behavior must remain family friendly.
- At no time shall there be a suggestion or innuendo that the house rules against overt sex are relaxed in some way by management. Avoid language like "anything goes" or "sexy madness and mayhem."
- Images within graphics associated with the event shall be non-pornographic and not appeal to the prurient interest. Ads for events will not be placed within a pornographic context.
- References to sluts, whores, pimps or other sexually degrading themes are not to be used.
- Wristbands can encourage better mingling within your group.
- Group guests will be instructed not to proposition or try to convert strangers that may not expect to encounter the swinger lifestyle.
- Keep sexual references within your group, especially if your voice carries.
- Police your own group to obey house rules always.
- Take any play behind closed doors.
- Enjoy flirting and being sexy. You are encouraged to strut your stuff, but avoid anything that has the appearance of an actual sexual act, or anything vulgar or obscene.
- Lifestyle associated insignia and materials shall not be displayed anywhere near the front entrance of the resort. A display can be arranged within the area of the event.
- Group members shall be informed that adult-oriented advertisements or insignia on clothing etc. are not allowed before 9PM.
Your detailed input and suggestions for improvement are most welcome. Click Reply to Topic to add your comments. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| inthewind |
Posted - 09/04/2008 : 12:15:22 AM
OK. I'll beat this dead horse a little more.
The fact of the matter is: sex is going to happen.
If not?
We're all done.
Life goes no further.
No kids. No grandchildren ect.
You cant stop it or the people that do it.
Sex happens in my bedroom as well as yours.
Sex happens at my resort as well as yours.
There are people that leave their "bedroom" door open.
And people that close their "bedroom" door.
Its called free will.
You have the Liberty to do that if you choose.
I live in The U.S.A. and I believe in free will.
I believe in God.
His Son Jesus Christ.
And the United States Marine Corps.
I also believe there are all kinds, and I mean all kinds, of people in this world.
It don't make us good or bad - it just makes us - us.
I could pretend to be a poker player and go to a poker players club as well as I could pretend to be a horse better and go to the track.
Or NASCAR, baseball, football fan, and pretend to be a tailgater. (no pun intended)
I could pretend to be a Dentist.
Or maybe I really am.
Or Real Estate Man, Carpenter, Banker, Teacher, Electrician, Lawyer, Trucker, a Computer geek or the kid that works at the local grocery store.
You see, these people have what is called passion.
And it is passion for what they do.
Otherwise they just wouldn't do it.
It is a passion just like you and I have.
Theres a difference between a Trucker and a Fireman. A Welder and a Computer geek. Electrician and a Carpenter.
Teacher, Plumber, Mechanic, Pilot, Preacher, Cop, and the kid that grew to be the Grocery Store Manager.
Point being, something will clue you in during conversation.
We all love to converse with each other and we are passionate about it.
Thats why we're here!!!
Did I mention the Gay, Straight and Bisexual Bicurious thing?
They, 'normally' have passion.
In or out of the "bedroom".
C'mon folks, lets have open eyes.
We all do anyway!
I'm not a swinger. But if I was, and I was passionate about it, I would also be passionate about nudity.
Just like anyone else. |
| Admin |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 12:29:54 PM
NaturistDoc, your Taliban-Nudist reference had me quite incapacitated for a while. It's great to start the day with a good laugh. I wish I had your writing style.
You're spot on in your analysis. The whole nudist/swinger/sex thing is a PR puzzle. What's been missing is the message of moderation that both swingers and nudists would benefit from. For swingers, it's certainly true that finding random partners is not the swinger ethic, but the public doesn't know that. Just like being nude in inappropriate settings or having open sex is not the nudist ethic, but again, we wonder if the public has grasped this part.
One thing is likely, with all this hoopla about the nudists versus the swingers, at least the public has an opportunity to learn that the two groups are at odds with each other, not just two versions of the same thing. This is advantageous on a publicity level. Furthermore, the public may grasp that all nudists have their limits, but some are more liberal than others.
Reading the comments after certain of the news articles in Tampa lately, it seems the greater majority support - - and nudism in general. Throughout the discussions are sprinkled generous amounts of that message of moderation that people need to hear more often.
I've always felt it's reckless to tell people you get nude on a regular basis without saying in the same breath what the limit of that activity is, for the benefit of the newcomer. The swingers have been making this mistake over and over, and this is where they have a PR problem that nudists may inherit somewhat from the latest associations being made in the media.
There are a few, but I wish there were more articulate swingers that could express their side of the moderation message, and that understand, as Cheri has put it, that the public knowledge of their presence could be a liability to the host club. Too many people do not grasp this yet, or give it much weight. |
| NaturistDoc |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 11:35:42 AM
One cannot help but be impressed by the the wisdom and generosity of spirit expressed by a number of people on this thread, particularly Admin and Melissastarr (who is clearly an 'old soul', despite her lack of wrinkles). Admin is certainly correct that most of us nudies fall somewhere in the mid-portion of the bell curve, neither opting for the random exchange of body fluids as a spectator sport, nor adopting what I call the Taliban-Nudist notion that Real Nudists are spiritually evolved beings who somehow check their libidos at the resort entrance. Most of us (I trust) don't head for a nude resort or beach looking for hookups, but to deny that their is ANY erotic element whatsoever to social nudism is naive.
The dilemma facing us is that Nudists, to the larger population, are by definition a fringe group, and thus worthy of a certain degree of suspicion. And to the mainstream population (and media), fringe groups tend to get stereotyped with the characteristics of their most extreme members. (Those of old enough to remember the anti-war movement of the 60s and 70s, for instance, don't really think much about the millions of thoughtful Americans who opposed the war, but have vivid recollections of the Hippies, Yippies, flag-burners, and what have you, who were a highly visible but ultimately rather insignificant fraction of the total.) When your Average Joe hears the word 'nudist', what do you suppose enters his mind? Someone like Cheri, sitting demurely naked under a tree at Cypress Cove? Or a hot tub full of swingers? Three guesses. Groups like AANR, TNS, and SUN have labored mightily to bring social nudism a bit closer to the mainstream, but there is no question that the swingers have undermined that effort to some degree.
So ... what to do? How can we distinguish ourselves from the swingers without becoming the Taliban? It's a P.R. problem as well as a philosophical one. I suspect the Swinger Issue at - - has been overstated, but I'm inclined to support AANR's action. The swingers have a right to their lifestyle, but we cannot permit them to hijack the public perception of nudists. |
| Digital_Cowboy |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 12:12:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by melissastarr
I guess my thought is this: who cares what happens behind closed doors at a nudist establishment any more than who cares what happens behind closed doors at other places? If it's behind closed doors and not hurting us, then I don't see the impact on nudism. I'm sure there are other things that happen behind closed doors at nudist establishments that I disagree with, but I don't know about them and nobody else much knows about them either, so how does it hurt? And is it REALLY my business what goes on behind closed doors if it's not hurting me?
The hard thing here is just thinking of how people can be swingers, which is what they're going to be whether you like it or not, and not impact nudists negatively. That's why this particular topic was started. Whether you like swinging/ swingers or not, whether you think they should be at nudist resorts or not, they're GOING to be part of our human population and they're GOING to be at nudist parks (just as any other sub-group is going to be at a nudist park), so let's figure out how we can get along without hurting nudism. I guess I'm just a realist: let's face the reality and establish some guidelines.
Melissa
___________________________________________________________________
"Be who you are and say how you feel because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter" -Dr. Seuss
Melissa,
I don't think there's much that needs to added other then a few points:
1) I can just about guarantee you that every 4/5-star hotel/resort, theme park, has either knowingly or unknowingly hosted a group that some segment of the population has a problem with
2) that small, medium, large crowd of people in the mall, at the market, park/pool might swingers making plans to meet up somewhere
3) with gas/oil prices climbing do you really see people driving a couple of hundred miles to go to resort or staying home?
. a) with the likelihood of more people staying home resorts need to do something to keep income coming in or else they're gonna go bankrupt, which isn't a good thing
As long as the swingers keep the sexual aspect behind closed doors is it really anyone else's business who or how many people a sharing a bed?
Also think about how difficult it is to get a nudist facility built. Do you really think a bunch of swingers will have an easier time building a club/resort in the USofA for sex?
There was a swingers club that opened here in the Tampa Bay area. That eventually ran into problems with the residents over whether or not swinging/sex took place at club or not. The club owners and members said no. But hardly anyone believed them. I'm not sure, but I think they've closed down. Not because of any code enforcement issues but because of pressure from the the community.
Live Long and Prosper
Herman |
| nudenewbie |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 9:56:04 PM
The ideas presented here are all fine and good, and I for one am actually quite open-minded about swinging, although I don't really desire that lifestyle for myself. I personally wouldn't have a problem attending a resort which welcomed swinging groups, as long as it was openly stated when/where such groups would be present so I could avoid them if I so chose----or, depending on the size/layout of the resort, having areas that wee strictly off-limits to the swingers so that those of us who weren't into that lifestyle could hang out nude in peace without worrying about running into anything we didn't wish to see.
However, this would be a "perfect world" solution, and we have to accept the reality of the world we live in. Nudism is still in a very precarious place in our society, in my opinion at least, and my greatest fear is how easily the nudist lifestyle is automatically associated with the swinger lifestyle by the outside world. Or even worse, associated with perversion. We know that's not true, but our state and local governments are full of people who believe this to be so, or are strongly influenced by constituents who believe this to be so, and I really hate to add fuel to that perception, because it only makes it easier for those anti-nudists to find excuses to shut down all our venues.
I'm speaking from the heart because I'm still feeling the sting of having our own beloved San Onofre beach in Southern California having its sanctioned nude status being taken away from us come September. It's ostensibly because too many people in power aren't comfortable with the beach's nude status and so claim there's a "sexual charge" on the beach which must be stamped out. The sad irony is, in the "sanctioned" part of the beach, I have never once witnessed anything untoward. By anyone. It's the most relaxing, family-friendly atmosphere one can imagine. What DOES happen, however, is sexual activity much further down the beach, beyond the "official" border on the military base property. Personally, I don't care, and here is an example where as long as I know what area to avoid (the area that the public shouldn't venture upon anyway), then I avoid it. And I wouldn't care what happens on that part of the beach, since my part of the beach remains unsullied and safe and in peace. BUT----the "sexual charge" on the UNofficial part of the beach causes the WHOLE beach to be perceived as sexually charged---and we get blackened by the same broad brush. Even though it's not true and unfair, it's really hard to prove a negative and convince the powers-that-be that the legal part of the beach ISN'T sexually charged and ought to be left alone. The irony is, I'm not sure if making the beach textile-only will do anything to curb the sexual activity on the military-portion anyway, but politicians are often more about a quick cosmetic solution to quiet the angry masses than a real solution anyway. Trouble is, we get hurt in the process (if you see mold on some cheese in the refrigerator, you usually just throw out the cheese, you don't just cut off the mold, even though the rest of the cheese might still be perfectly good---it's easier than taking any chances, and that's how the politicians think).
Anyway, in short, even though I take no offense at swinging and have a very tolerant (even liberal) view on various sexual lifestyles, my practical side says we have to err on the side of caution if we want to safeguard ourselves from having everything eventually taken away from all of us.
Sorry for the wordy ramble :)
Dave |
| go n nude |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 5:53:02 PM
Admin, the rules of engagement are good recommendations for host resorts/clubs ,plus the standing rules each resort stands by. There isn't much anyone can do or say here, unfortunately,thats going to change the way they do run their operations although its risky too say the least. If its all about money making, one may think maybe their fee's are much more than nudists can afford and lifestyles have money to burn, helping pay the bills which need to be paid or its trouble. The future isn't easy to forsee, do they want Sexism or Nudism one they'll have decide down the road, because as we all know one will have to go unfortunately.
go n nude |
| Admin |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 1:34:22 PM
With due respect, that No Man's Land in between is where we're betting the majority of people reside.
In studying people that frequent nude resorts and related establishments, we've found few people are solidly in the extreme right or radical left regarding nudism and swinging co-existing.
You might be, for instance, a believer in absolutely pure nudism, where everyone present not only never, ever expresses anything earthy or sexual, but they all keep their minds pure as well the entire time, all because they are nude. This rather ridiculous scenario is what we call the extreme 'true nudist'.
Then, on the other ridiculous extreme, is the radical free-range swinger, with no affiliations or loyalties to anyone, and no sense of etiquette or liability, only looking for a sexual thrill at any time, at any cost.
We don't know personally any people like this. We are only describing the two theoretical extremes of sexual expression orientation among resort guests and nude people in general.
Part of the problem of co-existing is that when discussion begins, some people contributing to that discussion throw out references to one or the other extreme as part of their argument. Of course, using the extreme in the equation spoils the solution for everybody, and the discussion is effectively derailed. Sometimes this is the intent.
We believe most nudists, when you ask them, will confide that they draw the line "somewhere". The Society for Understanding Nudism has drawn a line in the sand, that we believe is fair and effective for the majority of these groups to live happily under one roof. The closer to either extreme your beliefs reside, the less you'd probably like that solution.
If you were working to keep a resort operational, you'd probably embrace the idea, since it represents the greatest financial base to support the business.
The essence of the problem is finding exactly how to draw that line in the sand. All guests, whether lifestyle or family nudist, must agree to support these values for co-existing to succeed, and our resorts to flourish. We see some motion in this direction.
The whole reason for doing this, of course, is to stimulate the nudism industry, and make some ground rules for this century. We believe nudist resorts, clothing optional resorts, bed and breakfasts, RV campgrounds, and other businesses can offer people a variety of nude vacation choices appropriate for each traveler, all in concert with the local communities and within the local laws. The type of nude vacation allowed to exist doesn't matter, whether family, adult, or special interest, as long as they are within the law. What matters is building these choices and holding a consensus between those various factions that can work together. Then the entire industry can survive, especially in the tough economic times ahead.
The extremists on both ends should have their specialty resort locations as well, and they should be recognized by the public as 'different'. But in the end, we believe it's not feasible to eliminate those in the No Man's Land.
Who has the right to use the term nudist is another debate. Perhaps someone will start a chain of TrueNudist™ resorts. You heard it here first.
BTW, we are interested in everyone's suggestions and tweaks to help us draw a better line in the sand, to improve the rules of engagement. Please post your ideas here. |
| Phydeau |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 07:55:10 AM
BareWarrior brought up the biggest point. Swingers (not including swingers who are also naturists) don't give a rat's behind what happens to the less prurient nudist lifestyle. if the public becomes outraged enough to close down beaches, parks, and resorts, the swingers get to keep moving on as sex clubs.
The guidelines at the top of this thread, though new and undoubtedly subject to revision, should help to make it clear that the two lifestyles are, indeed, very different.
And I think there's a time and place for everything. Anybody ever been to a hotel when a convention was there? I have. It's a little odd when everybody's riding a Harley, or dressed up as supeheroes or Captain Kirk. That didn't change my opinion of the hotel. As long as nothing inappropriate happens in plain sight, people can get along. The trick is getting lifestyle groups to respect that they're in a resort intended for naturists. |
| Pete Knight |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 02:25:18 AM
I have to take issue with the 'Look away' attitude, whilst I don't have a problem with swingers per se, I do have a problem with them infiltrating nudism, or hiding behind a nudism front, if they really believe they are living a legitimate lifestyle why don't they call their club a swingers club, or say they are swingers not nudists. It is of course possible to be a nudist and a swinger but I still see a vast area of no mans land between the two, and that area should not be blurred.
Nudism is the practice of being nude, thats it, period, finito, anything beyond that is something else.
Pete Knight |
| Bare Warrior |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 8:17:56 PM
I think AANR has taken the right position and has the guts to not waver from long established standards.
If you really think that swingers and nudists associating is inevitable then you must also believe that the shutting down of our beaches and resorts is also inevitable. At some point you have to just say no.
And Cookie if the statistics I have seen on abuse, broken relationships, etc within the swinger lifestyle are even half-correct happiness really is short lived.
Bare Warrior |
| Cookie |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 9:07:25 PM
About a year ago we were invited to a party of one our nudist friends. We had never been to their house. but they had been to our house for nudist parties many times.
When we arrived we met many of their friends, it was in mid Summer so everyone was in the "buff", and around the pool, and spa, and we thought nothing of it. But as the night progressed, we realized there was more to this party than we had planned. It was a "Swingers Party". Needless to say we were taken back a bit!!
The host and hostess of the party came over to us and hoped that we were not offended. We said no, but it really not our life style. They hoped that we would stay, which we did.
We did not partake of the activities, but it seemed whomever was involved husband, wife, or friend enjoyed themselves!!!
As long as they enjoy this type of activity, and don't infringe on others, like us I hope they have a great time.
We have been invited back on several occasions, and we have gone to the party, and we have met some very interesting people, and we have never been pressured to join in the group.
Just remember, we are not here for a long time, so let's have a good time and as long as you and yours are happy, so let it be!!!!
Cookie |
| go n nude |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 7:18:20 PM
Your point melissastar is valid indeed we can agree on the what goes on behind closed doors and not in full view for all to witness. I know clubs from experience have accepted you name it's from all walks of life regardless of their orintation,as long as they didnot cause any trouble and behaved, no one has any problems. I think the family friendly clubs will have problems, when the balance or scale is tipped in this reality, and the friction causes the "friendly" to become unhappy as some have. Maybe someone will open a resort just for them,whatever they may be, and make them happy/friendly/peaceful places, to enjoy with likeminded people and be happy too.
go n nude |
| melissastarr |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 8:09:48 PM
I guess my thought is this: who cares what happens behind closed doors at a nudist establishment any more than who cares what happens behind closed doors at other places? If it's behind closed doors and not hurting us, then I don't see the impact on nudism. I'm sure there are other things that happen behind closed doors at nudist establishments that I disagree with, but I don't know about them and nobody else much knows about them either, so how does it hurt? And is it REALLY my business what goes on behind closed doors if it's not hurting me?
The hard thing here is just thinking of how people can be swingers, which is what they're going to be whether you like it or not, and not impact nudists negatively. That's why this particular topic was started. Whether you like swinging/ swingers or not, whether you think they should be at nudist resorts or not, they're GOING to be part of our human population and they're GOING to be at nudist parks (just as any other sub-group is going to be at a nudist park), so let's figure out how we can get along without hurting nudism. I guess I'm just a realist: let's face the reality and establish some guidelines.
Melissa
___________________________________________________________________
"Be who you are and say how you feel because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter" -Dr. Seuss |
| Bare Warrior |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 6:50:03 PM
I'm sorry guys, but there is a lot of pie in the sky wishful thinking going on here. After years and years of effort we are finding a healthy number of non-nudists supporting nudism because its a lifestyle that really doesn't threaten society as a whole and we have been able to distance ourselves from the swinger life-style, which does. Now we are going to embrace the very lifestyle that has been the main impediment to nudism's acceptance. Do you think we are on such solid ground in Pasco County and elsewhere that we can withstand the backlash? If you do I have some swampland in Alaska I want to sell you.
The Europeans are way ahead of us when it comes to public nudity, but they are not dumb enough to let the 2 mix. The nudist resorts I have been to outside the US are actually more strict than we are. I don't consider Hedonism, etc. nudist venues.
Disagreement does not mean dislike.
Bare Warrior
|
| go n nude |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 04:53:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bare Warrior
Here we go with being irresponsible again and not willing to offend under any circumstances. It is interesting how many of the above comments started with apologies or qualifiers. Why is that necessary in this discussion?
Look at the definition of naturism and then that of swinging. The ONLY thing that may be common is being naked. Everything about swinging centers around sex, open sex. Naturism is about living in the world, both in private and public, nude. Sex has very little to do with nudism.
We should not give up, and that is what we are doing, our lifestyle and life philosophy, to some other group that really has nothing in common with nudism. I don't think we would like to see our resorts becoming Textile Only on a regular basis, why support swinging on a regular basis?
Making a buck is important, but do you really think having a "don't ask, don't tell" policy will benefit nudism in the long run or these resorts. It will soon be impossible, regardless of how hard we try, to not associate swinging and nudism. Why does AANR and other organizations exist? For that very reason. As soon as there is hard, wide spread evidence of sex parties at these resorts they will be forced out of business. Who really believes that wont happen.
Let swingers organize themselves, find their own venues and create their own political action groups. Do you think they will really care what happens to nudism? Why should they, they are not nudist.
Bare Warrior
We've seen who plays the rules at our Resorts and not mention one, they didn't and yes they don't care what happens to this lifestyle. Throw out the welcome mat and we'll find out quickly this isn't welcome at all.
go n nude |
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