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openess
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Posted - 10/06/2007 : 07:35:46 AM
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I don't believe the subject here is about people who are taking "innocent pictures" of their loved ones. It's about perverts who take pictures of people they don't know because those people are nude. It's not at all hard to tell the difference between the two types of photographers. (That is doubly true for those photographing "birds and clouds".)
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Jim in Boston
Forum Member
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 Posted - 10/07/2007 : 9:22:14 PM
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Well, you need to know that we do pay some attention to who is doing the photographing and who they might be with. I have never threatened someone taking pictures of their kids. And I have never felt it necessary to actually take a camera from someone. The camera always goes back in the bag. From the tone of your note I am guessing you might actually be one of those jerks who want to take clit shots on the beach. And if not, if you really think that pressuring those people to put their cameras away, I suggest you reflect on their impact on potential clientele at the hotel on the beach. These cruise ship people are there for a few hours some afternoon. We are not going to allow them to harass the hotel guests.
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Country: USA
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/08/2007 : 2:49:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by openess
I don’t believe the subject here is about people who are taking "innocent pictures" of their loved ones. It’s about perverts who take pictures of people they don’t know because those people are nude. It’s not at all hard to tell the difference between the two types of photographers. (That is doubly true for those photographing "birds and clouds".)
Openess ,
The problem with your statement is that besides a person taking pictures of there friends, loved ones, there are other reasons why one might be taking picture at a nude beach such as the landscape and it can be equally applied to:
A) the film/photojournalist student who might be trying to complete a class assignment
B) the photojournalist who is trying to do a freelance article on nudism
C) or in the textile world the person who goes to the park/beach/club and "indiscriminately" takes pictures
There are plenty of legitimate reasons why a person may be trying to take pictures at a nude beach or other type of nudist facility. So wouldn’t it be better to give someone with a camera wouldn’t it be better to give ’em the benefit of the doubt UNTIL such a time that they’ve shown what their intentions are?
And if you're so worried that someone might innocently take your picture while yer at a nude beach, pool, resort/club the answer is simple DON'T go there.
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Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 10/08/2007 2:54:36 PM |
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Country: USA
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/08/2007 : 4:45:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim in Boston
Well, you need to know that we do pay some attention to who is doing the photographing and who they might be with. I have never threatened someone taking pictures of their kids. And I have never felt it necessary to actually take a camera from someone. The camera always goes back in the bag. From the tone of your note I am guessing you might actually be one of those jerks who want to take clit shots on the beach. And if not, if you really think that pressuring those people to put their cameras away, I suggest you reflect on their impact on potential clientele at the hotel on the beach. These cruise ship people are there for a few hours some afternoon. We are not going to allow them to harass the hotel guests.
Jim,
That is NEITHER what was said or implied.quote:
Originally posted by Jim in Boston
Do what we do on Orient Beach, which is to make it clear to the photographer that the camera must go back into its bag, or it is going for a swim.
That says and implies that as soon as you see a camera come out of it’s bag you and/or your band of "stormtroopers" storm over and threaten the person and/or their camera with injury/damage. NOT that you either assess or judge the situation to make sure you’re NOT threatening someone who is innocently taking pictures.
No, I’m someone who can step back and not judge someone who is doing something I don’t understand UNTIL I know what is going on. Not mention to mention that give that I don’t drive but rather ride a bicycle for transportation I am very used to dealing with morons who think it’s there way or the highway.
Even though it looks like you didn’t finish your thought, yes I do think that it’s wrong to pressure/force someone into doing something. Particularly IF we’re talking about a public beach with no posted rules prohibiting the use of cameras.
YOU’RE the one who needs to reflect on the impact that YOUR actions will have on potential clientele at the beach/club/hotel. As YOU are the one who is:
A) creating a hostile environment
B) breaking the law/rules
1) as I’m sure there is something in the beach/club/park/pool/resort rules about threatening or harassing other members/guests
The cruise ship people may be there for a "few hours," BUT your actions can have permanent repercussions. Such as I’ve said the beach, pool or what have you being closed by the authorities because of YOURS and others illegal behavior.
Just because you’ve never been "called on it" neither excuses it or males it "right." and what are you going to do when the day comes that someone DOES "call you on it?" are you prepared to:
A) carry out your threat of throwing the person and/or their camera into the water
B) face the consequences of your actions
1) arrest/lawsuit for the theft or destruction of private property
2) the closure of the beach/club/park/pool/resort, etc. by "the powers that be" or authorities
a) because they’ll correctly presume that "we" can’t behave in civilized manner
IF there are no rules posted prohibiting the use of cameras guess what. YOU are the one who is wrong and can face arrest and/or a possible lawsuit, because of YOUR illegal actions.
And if you feel like someone is doing something that they shouldn’t be doing and you’re NOT an employee all you can do is politely ask ’em to stop, IF they refuse report them to an employee. If you’re an employee then all you can do is ask ’em to stop, if they refuse ask ’em to leave. And IF they still refuse inform them that the police WILL be called and that they’ll be arrested on trespassing as well as any other applicable charges.
But under no circumstances do you as either a private citizen or an employee have the right to threaten another person or their equipment. To do so not only makes all nudists look bad but also has the very real possibility of damaging social nudism.
Such as with the closure of nudist facilities both public and private as well as the passing of more-and-more anti-nudity laws. Stop and think about it for a second. How will you feel IF:
A) you do end up threatening someone who is innocently taking vacation pictures
B) you’re actions and those of those who like you, think that it’s ok to take the law into your own hands and the result is
1) YOU’RE arrested/sued
2) the beach, club, what have you that you’re trying to protect gets closed down because of YOUR actions
3) that because of your actions all nudists are thought to be lawless, anti-social jerks who feel that they can do what they want, when they want, to whom they want
The bottom line is whether as a private citizen or an employee you do NOT ever have the right to take the law into your own hands. And that is exactly what you're doing, and one day it'll come back and bite you, those who think like you, and social nudism in the ass. Do you really want that to happen? Or to be the cause of it happening?
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Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 10/08/2007 4:50:31 PM |
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CMx2
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/08/2007 : 5:23:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
But under no circumstances do you as either a private citizen or an employee have the right to threaten another person or their equipment. To do so not only makes all nudists look bad but also has the very real possibility of damaging social nudism.
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement.
Someone 'innocently' taking vacation photos of strangers at a nude beach is clearly missing the common sense gene.
But someone obviously or covertly taking photographs of my wife and children are going to be very very lucky if losing their camera is their only problem. Someone blatantly taking photos of my family after I warn them to stop, is going to get a well deserved ass kicking.
Yes, I'm man enough to deal with the consequences that follow. But someone involved in this behavior must realize there are consequences to their actions as well.
Notice: This moderator, operating under username 'Moderator', has been terminated for repeatedly censoring or altering posts without providing a clear indication of which policy was being enforced. Her actions were not sanctioned by this organization.
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Edited by - Moderator on 11/02/2007 1:30:54 PM |
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Diger
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/08/2007 : 10:13:34 PM
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CMx2,
I agree, nudist have to take a stand.
We were visitng with Marianna Handler recently, she was talking about the old days at San Onofre beach. She said she saw several cameras go in the water. Now thats the real world.
Diger
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Country: USA
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 10/09/2007 : 01:43:01 AM
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Interesting discussion.
Just a reminder to cut your quotes down to just what you really need for context. In other words, remove sentences and sections you are not replying to. Also, if you're quoting the last message or so, it's not needed, just Reply. Those extra quotes and long quotes just make it harder to read.
I cleaned up a few.
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Country: USA
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/09/2007 : 04:39:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CMx2
quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
But under no circumstances do you as either a private citizen or an employee have the right to threaten another person or their equipment. To do so not only makes all nudists look bad but also has the very real possibility of damaging social nudism.
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement.
That is the ONLY thing you’ve said that you got right. As no matter how you may feel about what they’re doing. Unless they are actually doing something that is truly endangering their lives or safety.quote:
Someone ’innocently’ taking vacation photos of strangers at a nude beach is clearly missing the common sense gene.
How is that any different from someone doing the same thing at a textile beach? As has been said countless times before anything that can be done in the textile world can and should be doable in the nudist world.quote:
But someone obviously or covertly taking photographs of my wife and children are going to be very very lucky if losing their camera is their only problem. Someone blatantly taking photos of my family after I warn them to stop, is going to get a well deserved ass kicking.
Just because someone is taking pictures of you, your wife, or kids does NOT EVER give you or anyone else the "right" to "kick" their asses. If you’re that afraid of someone taking yours, your wife’s, or your kids. Then stay at home where you have total control over everything. As once you step outside of your house you’ve given up that control.quote:
Yes, I’m man enough to deal with the consequences that follow. But someone involved in this behavior must realize there are consequences to their actions as well.
Does that include the very real possibility of having the beach, club, park, pool, etc., etc. closed down because of your criminal actions?
Or your ending up in jail facing at the very least assault and battery charges or possibly attempted murder or murder charges depending on how badly you "kick" your victims ass.quote:
If someone thinks protecting my family is barbaric or immature, that’s fine. I’ll take that opinion over being considered a castrated meterosexual any day of the week.
Protecting your family is one thing, but acting like a Neanderthal and beating someone up just because they took someone’s picture is another. And goes way beyond being barbaric or immature.
And uh, I guess you’ve never heard it but REAL men don’t have to resort to violence, especially over something as inconsequential as a picture, to solve their problems. I’m also guessing that you’ve never heard the old saying "violence NEVER solved anything."
Is THAT how you want to teach your children how to deal with their problems? By resorting to violence?
If so, you are NOT man, you are a scared little coward. A coward who thinks that resorting to violence and beating people up is the best/right way to deal with their problems.
And if I’m ever picked to sit on jury in a case involving an immature, "barbaric," Neanderthal, like you, you had better believe that I’m gonna find ’em guilty of all charges, and when it comes time for the sentencing. You had better believe that I’m gonna be supporting imposing the stiffest penalties possible.
Herman
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Country: USA
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/09/2007 : 05:43:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Diger
CMx2,
I agree, nudist have to take a stand.
Yes, we as nudists have to take a stand, but that does NOT give us the right to break the law in doing so.quote:
We were visiting with Marianna Handler recently, she was talking about the old days at San Onofre beach. She said she saw several cameras go in the water. Now that’s the real world.
Diger
Just because it has happened that does not make it the Real world." what it is, is a bunch of thugs who resort to violence to get their way.
And IF I’m ever some place and see someone engaging in such behavior you had better believe that I’ll be the first one to report said behavior to the staff, and IF they choose to turn a blind eye and ignore it. Then again you had better believe that I’ll be the first one pull out my cell phone and file a police report. As well as my camera to document said crime/abuse/harassment.
Herman
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CMx2
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/09/2007 : 06:14:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
Protecting your family is one thing, but acting like a Neanderthal and beating someone up just because they took someone’s picture is another. And goes way beyond being barbaric or immature.
And uh, I guess you’ve never heard it but REAL men don’t have to resort to violence
You're wrong again. A real man knows when resorting to violence becomes a necessity.
quote:
Is THAT how you want to teach your children how to deal with their problems? By resorting to violence?
Yes, My children will be taught self defense skills so that they will be prepared to protect themselves (or others who are unable) when the unfortunate need arises.
quote:
If so, you are NOT man, you are a scared little coward. A coward who thinks that resorting to violence and beating people up is the best/right way to deal with their problems.
So I'm a coward because I'm willing to protect my family and face the consequences? That doesn't make a lot of sense. But from reading several of your posts, I guess thats pretty standard.
quote:
And if I’m ever picked to sit on jury in a case involving an immature, "barbaric," Neanderthal, like you, you had better believe that I’m gonna find ’em guilty of all charges, and when it comes time for the sentencing. You had better believe that I’m gonna be supporting imposing the stiffest penalties possible.
I'm not too worried about that. The chances of getting the same level of wussieness on the other 11 jury members is pretty much zero.
My advice? Stop taking your camera to the beach and you won't have to replace it again.
Notice: This moderator, operating under username 'Moderator', has been terminated for repeatedly censoring or altering posts without providing a clear indication of which policy was being enforced. Her actions were not sanctioned by this organization.
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Edited by - Moderator on 11/02/2007 1:32:22 PM |
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 10/09/2007 : 5:15:09 PM
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Great discussion. It was better before the pissing contest.
There are certainly those of us who are uncomfortable when someone takes it on themselves to be judge, jury and executioner, especially in a social setting where law enforcement is available.
On the other hand, it can be foolish to stand between a man and what he believes is the protection of his family. It is often not a situation to expect reasonableness.
I think both you two have made your points well. You're both adult enough to realize the other may not budge from his position. This is where diplomacy comes in.
This argument, this topic, has at least two sides to it, and it will not be settled for a long time. Enjoy the discussion, it's going to remain a lively one. Aggressively attack the talking points.
Do not attack the forum member. We'll all enjoy a better debate.
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Country: USA
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Taxman
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/11/2007 : 11:47:21 AM
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I will be the first to admit I did not scan all the posts and I am coming into this near the end.
It seems, there is some debate as to the right or wrongness of taking matters into your own hands regarding voyeurs and one’s family.
While in a public place, one would certainly have the right to request the voyeurs not to take nude pictures of family etc. At the same time, the voyeurs have the right to.
It has been well established, by the courts, that one does not have a right to privacy in a public forum.
If you take matters into your own hands, you most likely have committed assault and battery and possibly stolen/damaged private property. As a juror, I would have to find you guilty-despite the reasons why you did what you did.
In the end, you are the one who broke the law and as a society we cannot afford to have three hundred million vigilantes running about making up their own rules.
You do have options other than breaking the law. You can dress and or dress and leave the area.
It may not be the option we like, but it is a small price to pay for the freedom to move about and do as we want.
We need to remember the old saying mom use to tell us “two wrongs do not make a right”.
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CoolNude72
Forum Member
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 Posted - 10/11/2007 : 12:54:37 PM
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I say, just bend over and moon the cameraman 
Ray
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/13/2007 : 02:32:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CMx2
quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
Protecting your family is one thing, but acting like a Neanderthal and beating someone up just because they took someone’s picture is another. And goes way beyond being barbaric or immature.
And uh, I guess you’ve never heard it but REAL men don’t have to resort to violence
quote:
You’re wrong again. A real man knows when resorting to violence becomes a necessity.
Violence is NEVER the answer and if you believe that. Then you "sir" are worse then a coward, you are nothing but a bully. And IF we ever have the misfortune of meeting in person I will be man enough to tell you so to your face. As again a real man knows that violence isn’t the answer. That is why we have both the police and the courts.
And IF you’re at a public beach or park, or what have you. And someone is harassing you or family then move to another spot. If they follow you and continue to harass you, report them to an employee of the beach. IF there are no employees then call the police and report them. But under no circumstance are you ever allowed to take the law into your own hands.
quote:
Is THAT how you want to teach your children how to deal with their problems? By resorting to violence?
quote:
Yes, My children will be taught self defense skills so that they will be prepared to protect themselves (or others who are unable) when the unfortunate need arises.
Protecting oneself and those who are unable to protect/defend themselves is one thing. But beating someone up because they’re doing something that you don’t like/approve of, such as taking photos on a public beach, is being a bully. Then what’s next? Beating someone up because they’re listening to the "wrong" kind of music, or playing the "wrong" kind of game, or cooking/eating the "wrong" kind of food? People are almost always going to do something that someone else either isn’t going to like or approve of. That doesn’t mean that they’ve got the "right" to beat ’em up over it.
quote:
If so, you are NOT man, you are a scared little coward. A coward who thinks that resorting to violence and beating people up is the best/right way to deal with their problems.
quote:
So I’m a coward because I’m willing to protect my family and face the consequences? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. But from reading several of your posts, I guess that’s pretty standard.
Yes, you are a coward AND a bully IF you think that violence is the way to solve a problem. And I don’t think that you’ve really thought about or considered ALL of the consequences that your actions could have. Such as:
A) the person you beat-up could end up dying because of your actions
1) resulting in your going to prison for the rest of your life OR even your facing the death penalty, either of which would deprive your family of yourself
B) the person you beat-up could end up in a coma
C) because of your actions the beach being closed down for ALL recreational uses
D) depending on the state you’re in (such as Fl) YOU ending up dead IF the person you’re threatening truly believes that their life/safety is truly in jeopardy
1) as here in Fl one no longer has to "retreat" or show that they tried to retreat, IF one truly feels their life is in danger, and are empowered to use deadly force to defend themselves
quote:
And if I’m ever picked to sit on jury in a case involving an immature, "barbaric," Neanderthal, like you, you had better believe that I’m gonna find ’em guilty of all charges, and when it comes time for the sentencing. You had better believe that I’m gonna be supporting imposing the stiffest penalties possible.
quote:
I’m not too worried about that. The chances of getting the same level of wussieness on the other 11 jury members is pretty much zero.
Hmm, IF I’m not mistaken in this and other related threads there have been others who feel as do.
I have also shown this thread to both friends and casual aquantanances and they also feel as I do. That anyone engaging in the actions that you are advocating, that they’d find ’em guilty of all charges as well.
And I’m sorry but finding a person who has broken the law guilty is NOT being a "wuss." It is serving justice, and IF you can’t see that, then there is something fundamentally wrong with you.
[quote]My advice? Stop taking your camera to the beach and you won’t have to replace it again.
I will take my camera wherever I feel that it is appropriate, and I will NOT allow bullies like you to prevent me from doing what I know I have the legal right to do.
Herman
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Edited by - Moderator on 11/02/2007 1:34:35 PM |
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CMx2
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/13/2007 : 03:50:12 AM
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O.k. lets agree to disagree then.
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Edited by - CMx2 on 10/13/2007 07:42:51 AM |
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How to deal with camera phones on nude beaches ?
