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Admin
Forum Admin
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 Posted - 06/21/2008 : 10:03:29 PM
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The point of view at SUN is that there is a great need for a better classification system for the various types of nude recreation destinations.
One of the reasons we founded this organization, and offered this forum, is that we feel a system with only a black-and-white mentality just doesn't serve the clothing optional community.
Yes, there are nude destinations safe for a 5 year old, 24 hours a day 365 days a year. In our research, there are not many of them. They should be protected and supported.
Yes, on the other extreme there are locations or clubs that are only masquerading as nude recreation establishments, where the "nudist" part of the experience is entirely lacking. These would more properly be called swing clubs, but not all swing clubs try to pass themselves off as nude recreation destinations.
But guess what. There is a vast middle area of establishments that cater to a clientèle that prefers some measure of adult entertainment or atmosphere. These locations still forbid any open sex act, or the appearance of such, or anything illegal, but look the other way at the more common nighttime public displays of affection that are a part of any modern urban community. During the day, they are quite family 'safe', since all adult themes are restricted to after 9PM when the minors are off the property.
There is also a classification of destination that forbids minors, whether by choice or by legislative action, as in Hippie Hollow, which no longer permits families with children since the laws were changed.
SUN will provide an easy and sensible classification system to address these differences. We agree there is a need for it.
In the interest of helping you find the destination that suits you, we had just added a new feature to the website, as a part of the new Resort Showcase. It's called our Nude Google Maps. As I write this, there are many listings that can still be added.
quote:
Originally posted by VLM34 in this thread
But, from what I gather, SUN's only criterion will be sexual activity.
After reading a whole bunch of posts here, and having now heard from Cheri and you [Admin], I gather that you consider a place to be 'family friendly' and 'safe for kids' without regrad to whether it's filthy, disease-laden, physically unsafe, in serious disrepair, raucus, and full of aggressive peddlers of all sorts of political, social, economic, and religious views which the peddlers seek to foist on others, especially children -- so long as there's no overt sexual activity going on.
That kind of classification system isn't useful to me.
Just as the large hotel rating companies use many criteria to rate lodgings, so it should be for nude recreation destinations. It seems one of the most important values to people is whether the nude establishment condones any sort of adult theme or atmosphere. This would be only one of the criteria in a SUN rating system, but probably one of the more important ones to most travelers, in light of current issues related to nude recreation in the United States. Things may be different in your country of France, where the level of sexual expression allowed by the resort might not be as much of an issue.
And to be fair, where the topic was hijacked that necessitated this thread, the subject briefly on the table was sexuality at resorts, not cleanliness. Any thinking person would consider cleanliness, or absence of creeps, a factor in determining whether a resort was 'safe' for families.
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VLM34
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/22/2008 : 12:05:02 AM
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Admin says,
> Just as the large hotel rating companies use
> many criteria to rate lodgings, so it should
> be for nude recreation destinations.
Agreed, so long as readers see the ratings of each component, can weight each component differently than you do, and can thus come to a different conclusion.
> It seems one of the most important values to
> people is whether the nude establishment
> condones any sort of adult theme or
> atmosphere.
To some people, perhaps, but certainly not to all. We're not all trying to hide that one particular aspect of adult reality from our children. Some of us think that doing so is both dishonest and highly unwise.
> This would be only one of the criteria
> in a SUN rating system, but probably one of
> the more important ones to most travelers, in
> light of current issues related to nude
> recreation in the United States.
Perhaps the 'current issues' you speak of are the result of much noise generated by the sex-must-be-hidden crowd, the keep-kids-ignorant crowd, while the rest of us roll our eyes and shrug. We're not all of the same opinion as the noise-makers.
> Things may be different in your country of
> France, where the level of sexual expression
> allowed by the resort might not be as much of
> an issue.
I'm a US citizen, and a legal resident of Oregon, who spends winters just north of Phoenix and summers in southern France. Currently, I'm a member of one landed AANR club and one landed FFN club. I've spent at least three days in about 40 different landed clubs in the States, and in about 20 landed clubs in Europe. I've also spent well over 3000 hours on state-side clothing-optional beaches. I've written for N Magazine, the NAC newsletter, and various other nudist/naturist publications.
You might have noted that my email address ends in .com -- not .fr.
I think my English is pretty good.
> And to be fair, where the topic was hijacked
> that necessitated this thread, the subject
> briefly on the table was sexuality at
> resorts, not cleanliness.
Nevertheless, your description of your soon-to-be-announced rating system gave no hint of any rating criterion other than degrees of 'sexual activity.' I note that Cheri defines 'sexual activity' as anything more than holding hands or a quick peck.
> Any thinking person would consider
> cleanliness, or absence of creeps, a
> factor in determining whether a resort
> was 'safe' for families.
I made no mention of 'creeps.' (Pray tell, what's a 'creep'?) I did list a lot of items in addition to cleanliness.
I'm hoping that you'll provide a rating system like that of Consumer Reports, in which the reader gets all the facts, is aware of the biases of the raters, can ignore the raters' conclusion, can weight the facts differently than the raters did, and come to a different conclusion.
I'm looking for accurate data. No more, no less. Like the vast majority of nudists, I'm interested in facts, not guidance from on high. We don't need a nudist 'leader.'
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nudenewbie
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/24/2008 : 3:08:07 PM
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Well, I for one am quite glad that SUN is coming up with this classification system. I'm not entirely sure where all the anger stems from, unless it comes from a resentment that the classification system is based mainly on degrees of sexual overtness within a particular locale. Even then, I'm a bit puzzled as to why this would be looked at as a bad thing (unless the argument is that sexual activity is being singled out as more important---i.e., more "dangerous" or simply more "bad" than other factors like cleanliness, etc.---but the reality is that sexual activity IS the most controversial element in the world of nudist venues).
Anyway, I think classification system is the best possible solution. Since we're never going to "solve" the ultimate philosophical disputes among the varying degrees of "family friendly" vs "sexually permissive" camps, I think this will at least give everyone a road map to make sure that they know what they're getting when they choose a particular venue. It will allow those people to support whichever venues most closely suit their mindsets, and not support those that don't.
And even for many of us who are relatively open-minded, who might be willing to support all types of venues, it will still be a valuable tool because sometimes we want to visit places that are 100% family-friendly and other times we might want to visit a place that permits a bit more adult atmosphere (even we open-minded folk don't want to be surprised with something we didn't expect nor desire when visiting a place), and this system will be a great service.
Thank you, Admin, for taking part in helping to come up with a solution to this issue. Will it completely solve the politics surrounding these issues? Of course not. But at least you're taking concrete steps in improving the world of nudism a little bit, and that deserves kudos.
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nudeisbetter
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Posted - 06/24/2008 : 3:11:24 PM
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The "anger" comes from someone being a troll, that's all...
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:13:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by VLM34
Agreed, so long as readers see the ratings of each component, can weight each component differently than you do, and can thus come to a different conclusion...
...Nevertheless, your description of your soon-to-be-announced rating system gave no hint of any rating criterion other than degrees of 'sexual activity.' I note that Cheri defines 'sexual activity' as anything more than holding hands or a quick peck...
...I'm hoping that you'll provide a rating system like that of Consumer Reports, in which the reader gets all the facts, is aware of the biases of the raters, can ignore the raters' conclusion, can weight the facts differently than the raters did, and come to a different conclusion.
I'm looking for accurate data. No more, no less. Like the vast majority of nudists, I'm interested in facts, not guidance from on high. We don't need a nudist 'leader.'
Some of these suggestions are spot on. You really don't need to be so confrontational, no one is keeping you from making your points. We don't allow a flaming style here, camaraderie is more important than aggressive argument. Please check our posting rules here.
I'm finding your suggestions very helpful. How many vectors would you suggest we cover?
I had already in mind a viewer adjustable weighting system to selectively balance the several performance values, with each of those values provided by semi-public polls and weight adjustable by the viewer, but that would entail some rather expensive programming. It wasn't even very easy constructing that description! (If anyone reading this forum is a serious programmer that could code such a system, we'd like to hear from you.)
"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves." --Lao Tzu
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SweetJezebel
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Posted - 07/03/2008 : 7:52:56 PM
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I do think you raise an interesting point: that "sexually permissive" and "family friendly" need not be mutually exclusive (that is, if I'm understanding you correctly, VLM34). Nudist locations do tend to fall into two camps: adults-only and family-friendly, and never the twain shall meet. It seems to me that you're saying the parents should be the judge of what constitutes "family friendly" for their children, and if they are open to bringing their children to a more sexually permissive resort, then they should be able to. Am I following you?
I agree that parents should be given that opportunity. However, as a nudist who likes both family-friendly and adult-only resorts/beaches, I have to say that I also like having some places where my husband and I can go without having children around. The predominant view seems to be that adult-only nudist locations have more overt sexual activity, which isn't always the case; a lot of adults go to adult-only locations simply to be around likeminded adults with no children or young teenagers around.
As was pointed out in the first post here by Admin, there are plenty of adult activities going on in family-friendly locations during the evening hours. In my experience, it's quite rare to find a nudist location that DOESN'T have some element of adult atmosphere once the sun goes down - whether family-friendly or adult-only.
I think a better classification system would definitely help out here. Again, this is only my experience, but I've found that there tend to be about four types of nudist locations:
- 100% family friendly (no adult atmosphere even at night) - quite uncommon
- Family friendly with more "adult" evenings (probably the most common)
- Adults-only with more permissive rules about sexual activity, but still not encouraging any public overt sexual activity
- Adults-only with few if any restrictions on overt sexual activity (quite uncommon, and usually billed as "lifestyle-friendly" places)
Just my two cents.
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Edited by - SweetJezebel on 07/03/2008 7:53:32 PM |
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/03/2008 : 10:37:14 PM
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There are adult-only, g-rated nudist resorts such as Terra Cotta Inn in Palm Springs, CA. It's a great place to relax, de-stress and be pampered.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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http://pages.prodigy/cheridonna
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StuffedTiger
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Posted - 07/04/2008 : 04:57:57 AM
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I don't understand why a nudist facility would be rated any differently, or by any other rating criteria, than the way a similar facility that does not permit nudity would be rated.
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VLM34
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/05/2008 : 5:13:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SweetJezebel
(1) I do think you raise an interesting point: that "sexually permissive" and "family friendly" need not be mutually exclusive (that is, if I'm understanding you correctly, VLM34). (2) Nudist locations do tend to fall into two camps: adults-only and family-friendly, and never the twain shall meet. (3) It seems to me that you're saying the parents should be the judge of what constitutes "family friendly" for their children, and if they are open to bringing their children to a more sexually permissive resort, then they should be able to. Am I following you?
<snip>
1. You understand me correctly.
2. Some people insist on classifying nudist resorts that way. That's fine with me, so long as they don't impose their opinions on me and my family.
3. Yes, you are following me perfectly. What I consider suitable for my family need not be what others consider suitable for theirs. And vice-versa.
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VLM34
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/09/2008 : 3:38:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by StuffedTiger
I don't understand why a nudist facility would be rated any differently, or by any other rating criteria, than the way a similar facility that does not permit nudity would be rated.
I agree. But that doesn't mean the many quite different rating systems for textile places are adequately unbiased and adequately informative. They certainly produce very different recommendations.
Let's not copy flawed systems.
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VLM34
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/20/2008 : 04:13:23 AM
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Ms Jezebel,
A while back, I responded to the first paragraph of your post of July 3. Here’s the best I can do with the rest of it.
Where we part is on the worth of labels such as “family friendly,” “adult-only,” “sexually permissive,” “adult activities,” and “adult atmosphere.” Those are people’s personal characterizations based solely on personal “standards” that are seldom if ever clearly enunciated. In addition, the specifics on which the opinion is based are seldom forthcoming, which is to say that the opinion tells me nothing useful.
For example, when someone says a place is “sexually permissive” I have no idea whether they mean that intercourse, of one kind or another, routinely occurs on the pool table at high noon during the Sunday potluck, whether two people were once observed linking fingers at arm’s length, or whether the actual behavior is somewhere in between. I don’t even know if the opinion comes from personal observation, or is just 22nd-hand hearsay. I’ve also learned to be less than fully trusting of those who claim personal knowledge. Some people “see” things that I don’t see, perhaps because they “see” what they’ve been told they’ll see, because they exaggerate, or because they can’t distinguish their fantasies from reality.
It’s the same with “family-friendly.” My wife and I checked in one time to an AANR place where sexual propriety was beyond reproach - perfect by the standards of even the most prudish nudist - but there were no facilities for kids, the lake stunk, the boats leaked badly, the hot tub was filthy, the community kitchen was worse, and the electrical wiring was frayed-to-bare. Yet, in the usual sense of the terms, that dump was 100% G-rated and totally family-friendly: no violence, no heavy drinking, and no hint of sex!
I don’t think that the absence of “sexual permissiveness” - whatever those words may mean to the person using them - is the only criteria that defines “family friendly” or even the most important one.
We agree that a place reserved for adults is not necessarily unsuitable for children. The trouble is, “adults-only” doesn’t tell me why a place is so labeled. As you say, it could just cater to adults who want peace and quiet, but who never get within ten feet of each other, who never ever even link fingers. The label could also describe a place that’s too dangerous for children, as perhaps a place with a raging river down the middle, infested with poisonous snakes, or unsafe in some of the other respects I’ve mentioned. I sure wouldn’t take kids anywhere they’d be likely to drown, die of snake bite, be electrocuted, or get a disease. And “adults-only” may be someone’s highly subjective opinion based on their own peculiar views of what minors should and should not see. Saying that a place is “adults-only” doesn’t tell me anything useful. I want to know _why_ a particular person calls it that!
For all those reasons, any rating system using such labels isn’t useful to me. Neither is one based on polling. I don’t know who is contributing to the poll, I can’t interrogate them, and I don’t know if they’ve ever been to the place in question. I don’t know if they have the same “family values” I have, if they’re given to imagining things, or if they’re just saying what they perceive to be the composite opinion of whatever herd they run with.
If we’re going to evaluate and classify nudist resorts, I’d want 30 to 50 items on the list, the meaning of each term precisely defined, and each item evaluated factually. None of that is hard to do. And I hope there’d be no bottom line. IMO, that’s for each of us to decide on our own.
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 07/20/2008 : 12:10:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by VLM34
If we’re going to evaluate and classify nudist resorts, I’d want 30 to 50 items on the list, the meaning of each term precisely defined, and each item evaluated factually. None of that is hard to do. And I hope there’d be no bottom line. IMO, that’s for each of us to decide on our own.
Great suggestions, VLM34 and SweetJezebel.
SweetJezebel: Your four categories are quite similar to the system we are developing. The idea is to provide a useful and unambiguous system to a family, couple or single seeking a certain type of atmosphere suitable for their needs.
VLM34: I'm still not clear on how we would "evaluate factually" without reasonably moderated polling. For instance, if polling is restricted to members in good standing with the forum, a lot of the noise is eliminated from the signal. In a perfect world, we'd also have an option available for you to eliminate those without "credibility points", or something similar.
No polling would mean someone has to authoritatively evaluate for you what all the data is supposed to mean. Or, your other option would be, as it is now, to personally read each and every post regarding your target resort. That's time consuming. If we were crunching the numbers to see what the consensus is on those multiple criteria, I would put more trust in "asking the audience", especially if the audience is limited to NRO members.
Kudos to you for pointing out that precise definitions are needed, and that multiple criteria should be presented. What was the bottom line reference alluding to, paid advertising?
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Country: USA
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VLM34
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/22/2008 : 1:54:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by VLM34
If we’re going to evaluate and classify nudist resorts, I’d want 30 to 50 items on the list, the meaning of each term precisely defined, and each item evaluated factually. None of that is hard to do. And I hope there’d be no bottom line. IMO, that’s for each of us to decide on our own.
quote:
VLM34: I'm still not clear on how we would "evaluate factually" without reasonably moderated polling.
Do you really intend to “poll” as to whether Resort X has a hot tub? That’s not a matter of opinion; there’s no personal judgment involved, it’s not subject to a vote. The place has a hot tub or it doesn’t. Similarly for probably 80% of the questions I’d ask about a resort.
Oh, I suppose some degree of personal opinion can’t be avoided, as with questions about cleanliness, but carefully crafted questions can get close-to-factual responses.
quote:
For instance, if polling is restricted to members in good standing with the forum, a lot of the noise is eliminated from the signal.
If you’re asking for opinions, all you’ll get is a reproduction of the prejudices of this fairly homogenous group. If you polled a different group, with good standing decided by a different Administrator, you'd get different answers.
Right now, as I type, there are four members here and 150 guests. That's typical. Only 21% of members have ever posted. By polling members in good standing, you’d get the consensus opinion of the small, quite like-minded group that posts here. That opinion would become NRO's message to the 200-times-larger group who seek information here and who, by and large, are unlikely to share the preoccupation with other people’s sexual activities that we see in those who do post.
From what I’ve read, NRO intends to rate resorts on just one criteria: SEX! A focus on sex - to the exclusion of the many other factors that most people want to consider when choosing a resort – would be like rating restaurants solely on the dimensions of their restrooms.
In the real world, people want to know about the facilities in general, the RV facilities, maintenance, cleanliness, noise, and a lot of other things. Sex is just one of the many items people want to consider, if sex is on their list at all.
quote:
In a perfect world, we'd also have an option available for you to eliminate those without "credibility points", or something similar.
The number of remaining participants might not be large enough to provide meaningful results.
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No polling would mean someone has to authoritatively evaluate for you what all the data is supposed to mean.
I don't want anyone to _evaluate_ anything for me. That's my job. I want data, not someone else's interpretation of it.
quote:
Or, your other option would be, as it is now, to personally read each and every post regarding your target resort. That's time consuming.
I don't want to read posts. When I ask about a particular resort, I want to read a tabulation of the answers to a standard questionnaire with maybe 50 questions. The questions would be grouped into eight or ten topics: Facilities for Day Visitors, Overnight Facilities, Cleanliness of Facilities, Maintenance of Facilities, Observations of Management, Age Groups Observed, Sports Observed, Potlucks and Parties Observed, and (since this is NRO) Sexual and Pseudo-Sexual Activities Observed.
We want observations, not opinions. Facts, not emotion. We want to know what people actually saw, NOT how they _regard_ what they saw!
For example:
Q4. Does Resort X have a pool? Yes: 148 (91%); No: 9 (6%) Don’t Know: 5 (3%).
[Yes, I’d like an option to eliminate all answers from responders who claim to have been to Resort X, but who think it doesn’t have a pool or who weren’t sufficiently observant to know.]
Other questions would be:
Q5. Does Resort X have a hot tub?
Q6: Does Resort X have a kiddy pool?
Q7: Does Resort X have a kiddy playground?
Q8: Does Resort X have activities for teens?
Q12. Are full hookups for RVs provided?
Q13. Are RV pull-throughs available?
Q20. Was the pool adequately clean?
Q21. Was the hot tub adequately clean?
Q34. Was management pleasant and informative?
Oh, sure, I’d include a few questions about sex. Although that’s not of much interest to me and mine, there’s an eager audience for such stuff, especially in NRO. Let’s cater to the interests of everyone.
Q44. Did you, with your very own eyes, see anyone masturbating or involved in anal, oral, or vaginal intercourse in the public portion of the resort?
Q45. Did you, with your very own eyes, see anyone ‘making out’ like you did (or wanted to) as a teenager in the public portion of the resort?
Q46. Did you, with your very own eyes, see anyone engaged in kissing for longer than 0.72 seconds in the public portion of the resort?
Q47. Did you, with your very own eyes, see anyone holding hands with another person in the public portion of the resort?
Q48: Did you, with your very own eyes, see anyone smile at anyone else in the public portion of the resort?
Q49: Did you peer or attempt to peer into people’s private spaces (tents, RVs, cabins, etc) to see if they were doing something you disapprove of or could gossip about?
That brings us to Question #1 and Question #50. Those are the crucial questions in any fact-finding survey.
Q1. Have you spent at least eight hours on the grounds of Resort X within the last three years? (All answers from anyone who says ‘No’ or ‘Don’t Know’ would be discarded. We want facts from personal observation, not hearsay, old news, or faint memories.)
Q50. Did you answer every question truthfully, from your own personal knowledge, with no input or influence from anyone else? (All answers from anyone who says ‘No’ or ‘Don’t Know’ would be discarded. We want facts from personal observation, not lies, hearsay, or group-think.)
quote:
If we were crunching the numbers to see what the consensus is on those multiple criteria ...
Just tell me how many (and what percent) answered Yes, No, and Don’t Know to each question. That’s not number crunching, that’s simple arithmetic.
And I don’t want to see an overall consensus on Resort X, I don’t want to see a bottom line. I’ll look at the answers to the questions that interest me, and decide for myself if I want to go.
quote:
... I would put more trust in "asking the audience", especially if the audience is limited to NRO members.
That would depend on what kind of questions NRO members were asked. If they’re asked to provide factual, first hand data of the kind I’ve mentioned, I’d be reasonably trusting. If they’re asked to provide an opinion on anything, I’m not interested in the answers – just as I wouldn’t be interested in the answers of any homogenous group.
quote:
What was the bottom line reference alluding to, paid advertising?
Paid advertising? No, not at all. Your finances are your problem.
As I’ve said repeatedly, I’m not interested in any overall (bottom line) characterization or recommendation on a resort. I don’t want any person or any group characterizing a resort as ‘family-friendly’ or ‘suitable for children’ or ‘sexually permissive’ or ‘adult-oriented’ or ‘recommended’ or ‘not recommended.’ The terms are too vague, and the personal philosophies that guide such opinions are too varied.
Ask questions designed to elicit facts, not opinions. Demand factual responses. Tabulate the results. Let readers look at the answers to the questions that interest them, and decide as individuals if Resort X is suitable for them.
Some in this NRO group, probably most, will look only at answers to the questions about sex. That’s their only criteria, their only interest. Nevertheless, believe it or not, others have different criteria.
I’d be looking primarily at general facilities, RV facilities, state of maintenance, cleanliness, and how far it is to a supermarket. A couple we’re friends with would want to know about the rental rooms, the tennis courts, whether there’s a clean and heated lap pool, and how far it is to a golf course. Both we and they would want to know how often dances are held, whether they’re DJ or live band, and if there are any busybody rules against dancing nude and/or close. Oh, yes, they’re crazy for karaoke; they’d absolutely insist on karaoke. We don’t give a hoot about karaoke, so that’s not on our list.
I’m rooting for a factual _tabulation_ that will be useful to all nudists. We’re not all the same, you know.
Did I get through this time?
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old hippie
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/23/2008 : 12:16:25 AM
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For anyone who wants to research a resort before showing up there, a personal report from a recent customer would likely be the best basis for evaluation, particularly if the reporter is known to the researcher (so as to gauge he evaluation). Failing that, I suppose a rating grid, a la Consumer Reports, would be pretty helpful, if it isn't too long and is clearly factual.
. If VLM has a bank of fifty items to rate, perhaps he will convey the full list to Admin, who might use some or all of them. For myself, I think that is too long a list, but that's just me. I also think the accommodations at Orient Beach Club are too spartan for my spouse, while others find them quite wonderful. I could have seen that from a simple photo of the rooms. In fact, many people judge the desirability of a destination from a photo or two on a brochure or a web-site.
We have no interest in spouse-swapping, but often like to have a week away from children and churls; if there were a resource which might ease the selection process, I'd look at it. Perhaps someone (whether Admin or VLM or another entity) could just publish the instrument, and let users employ it or not; then modify if necessary. That might give us all a means to evaluate the evaluation, as it were.
Until then, "Boys, play nicely now."
Peace, love, and lollipops,
Ol' Hippie
Dum vivimus, vivamus!
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 07/24/2008 : 4:14:42 PM
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VLM34, of course you're getting through. There's no need to be rude.
You may have missed that I said earlier that classifications such as those you mention are important as well. However we also want to provide some sensible rating system for those that have preferences for or against an adult atmosphere.
That said, your suggestions have been quite helpful. I'm building a list of criteria, but as old hippie said, if you have a finished list you can save us the time.
As you can see, too many nested quotes will cause display problems. Anyway, thanks for typing all that out.
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Country: USA
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VLM34
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/25/2008 : 12:47:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
VLM34, of course you're getting through. There's no need to be rude.
Our perceptions differ on both points.
quote:
However we also want to provide some sensible rating system for those that have preferences for or against an adult atmosphere.
I see. These people can’t look at tabulated answers to 6-10 questions and decide what the answers mean to them. They need someone else to tell them what the answers mean to them. Interesting!
That someone else would be well advised to obtain good legal advice.
quote:
I'm building a list of criteria, but as old hippie said, if you have a finished list you can save us the time.
It’s best that you have the pride (and the responsibility) of authorship. But, if you email ‘em, I’ll critique ‘em.
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| Nudist-Resorts.Org Discussion Forum Bulletin Board Nudism Clothing Optional Resort Naturism Nude Beaches |
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Classification system for rating nudist resorts
