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JulieU
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 04:39:58 AM
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Hello all,
Sorry for neglecting this for so long - I was surprised when I saw that this post was still generating thoughts! Thank you for all the comments - I am leading this project and will do my best to answer them all.
1. First, we quite agree it seems strange that the bra industry haven't collected this information before. It is quite possible that they have done, but we have not found that this information is publically available. If they haven't collected this, it might be because they are interested in other morphological aspects of breasts, and not appearance.
2. Our evolutionary hypothesis relates to the appearance of breasts (which is why we want to create images). In evolutionary processes, the 'receiver' (i.e. other people) is important, as how they respond to features can shape the characteristic concerned. So, women with breasts may be more successful at certain things, because of what other people think about the breasts, and what they mean. So, in order to test these sorts of hypotheses, we need to create a range of images that vary on certain parameters, and then test how these images are judged.
3. Desmond Morris posed a theory that breasts mimic the appearance of buttocks, and thus encourage face to face sexual intercourse. The argument follows that face to face intercourse encouraged pair bonding etc. There are a number of problems with this theory (but I must point out that there are no concrete data in favour or against). However, there are many other apes who have sexual intercourse face to face (without the encouragement of breasts), and buttocks are also a relatively recent phenomenon in evolution.
4. The survey is created within a particular survey package, so we link to it from the University website.
Agde - thanks for your questions.
5. We do have a specific hypothesis. I am rather hesitant to go into the details until we have some data to prove or disprove our ideas (and as we don't want to bias participants of the main survey), but in essence we feel that breasts helped women to gain monogamous pair bonds (either real fathers or cuckolds). So this is similar to the Desmind Morris idea, but relies on the information that can be gleaned from breasts rather than sex itself.
6. Yes, we will correlate the images we collect with the information we ask from the participant (age, weight etc.), and then we will use this to standardise our compouter generated images.
7. The average breast element to the study is a side project. One of the reasons we need to collect our own images for this, is that the dominant media view of breasts is probably very inaccurate. We thought this was a good opportunity to document this and (if we get enough images) publish a series of short papers on average asymmetry, size etc. If we can show that asymmetry is common, for example, this has implications for women post-surgery.
I hope this has answered your questions - once again I apologise for taking a while. Your thoughts are very helpful indeed, please continue to post questions and I will keep a closer eye on this thread.
Best,
Dr. Bridget Waller (University of Portsmouth)
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balataf
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 10:51:46 AM
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The question of "appearance" is closely related to the relatively unique structuring of the masses of fat and glands. It is notable that, beyond a minimal level of fat deposits, the freely moving breast will dangle so that viewed from almost any angle, the nipple is centered against the globe of flesh. This seems true to me no matter what position the lady is in: {sitting, stnding, leaning. or at a ny angle.)
I think that this makes for greater utility in both breastfeeding and in sexual atrractiveness, snd, indeed, logically, both factors must work closely together as the species' evolution cannot seperate these needs. I was totally entranced when watching my new-borns get mealtime from their mother's equipment. This becomes more important because, unlike the kittens, puppies and others I have seen, the human baby can't crawl around to position himself at first.
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Edited by - balataf on 10/17/2008 10:59:27 AM |
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Country: USA
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robertreno
New Member
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Posted - 10/20/2008 : 1:45:23 PM
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I am amazed at the scepticism of most respondants. Most people who visit this site spend a good part of their lives nude, and often with people they've never met before. When we visit resorts we "expose" our bodies (breasts included) with everyone in attendance. What harm can you possibly imagine if an anonymous photo of your breasts..or any other body parts... are on some website?
I can't imagine anyone here is embarassed. Afterall, they're just breasts. What in the world are we all so fearful of?
cheers.
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agde
Forum Member
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 Posted - 10/21/2008 : 1:42:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JulieU
... We do have a specific hypothesis ...in essence we feel that breasts helped women to gain monogamous pair bonds ...the dominant media view of breasts is probably very inaccurate ...this was a good opportunity to document this and (if we get enough images) publish a series of short papers on average asymmetry, size etc...
Dr. Waller - Thank you for your response. The purpose and methodology are much clearer now.
I think the pair-bonding idea may turn out to be quite informative, since anecdotally in clothed social environments one sees behavior that purposefully leverages or surpresses this. The bra manufacturers in fact may have carefully studied this. Interestingly, in naturist environments, even at mating age, full body exposure tends to put breasts in the context of an overall whole-body impression and thus, I suspect, makes it more difficult to emphasize breasts for pair-bonding. (Perhaps an historical reason for clothing, jewelry etc as decoration.) But from an evolutionary perspective, one can imagine arguments pertaining to fertility, extended child nurturing, etc.
Various studies have shown that people tend to associate symmetry with attractiveness (eg. faces) so it would not be surprising if breast asymmetry is somehow significant. Again, given their experimentation with various shapes over the years, bra manufacturers may have studied this carefully and responded accordingly. In naturist settings, we are so used to variety and asymmetry that I suspect you have a slam-dunk argument that the media presents a "very inaccurate" view of breasts. It is nevertheless good to have some structured scientific evidence handy. At the same time, it is amazing how successful nature is in putting together physical combinations where individual elements may be asymmetrical or differently sized, but where it all works well aesthetically as a whole.
So, just a couple naturist reflections -- that any academic process that separates breast attributes from their host bodies might produce skewed conclusions, that it is great to focus more attention and discussion on asymmetry and variety as a normal and gently joyous thing rather than as a deviation from some symmetrically Barbie-doll ideal, and that documenting the social and other impacts of unconscious perceptions related to breast shape and size is the necessary first step for both men and women to be aware enough to discard unproductive social pathologies.
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Edited by - agde on 10/21/2008 1:48:33 PM |
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JulieU
New Member
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Posted - 11/10/2008 : 03:05:50 AM
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Dear all,
We are still looking for participants, so if any of you have been interested by these discussions and are willing to take part please do so!
As always, we are happy to respond to your questions if anything is unclear.
www.port.ac.uk/breastsurvey
Best wishes,
Bridget Waller and JulieU
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islandmad
New Member
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Posted - 11/11/2008 : 11:14:23 AM
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What a coincidence to see this thread when I have just posted to HUMAN VARIATION thread encouraging everyone to view and post to humanvariation.blogspot.com - Dr Julie may find it interesting to have a look as well - they are doing a similar study but for the whole body not just a part
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Warmskin
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n/a
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Posted - 11/20/2008 : 4:04:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emwavehunter
My negative response was a reaction based upon many years of being a System Engineer, Web Developer and security professional.
That's interesting ... my negative response was a reaction based upon many years of having my chest stared at by adolescent males (whatever their age).
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Warmskin
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Posted - 11/20/2008 : 4:44:00 PM
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I imagine that they stared at you, Honeysuckle, because you had some kind of clothing on, assuming you were not a nudist place at those times. What you can see only the outline of, but not the complete details of, provokes much curiosity. At a nudist resort it's all too obvious, wherein curiosity cannot flourish, and the mystery goes away, leaving the viewer no longer interested. Hopefully, anyway.
That government governs best, which governs least - Thomas Jefferson
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n/a
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Posted - 11/20/2008 : 7:27:02 PM
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Yeah, I agree with parts of what you said, Warmskin, but I still think there's curiosity and mystery and interest in the nude human body. I think the human body is magnificent ... I never get tired of looking at bodies, whether male or female, black or white, large or small. They're all beautiful, from toes to eyes to tummies to penises and breasts. They're all God's creation, and they're magnificent :)
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HannahB
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 Posted - 11/21/2008 : 10:08:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by honeysuckle
Yeah, I agree with parts of what you said, Warmskin, but I still think there's curiosity and mystery and interest in the nude human body. I think the human body is magnificent ... I never get tired of looking at bodies, whether male or female, black or white, large or small. They're all beautiful, from toes to eyes to tummies to penises and breasts. They're all God's creation, and they're magnificent :)
That is so well said honeysuckle! I could not agree more, I think the human body is beautiful, and I too love it all. The strong masculinity and rigidness of the male body, the soft curves and femininity of a womans body - it is just gorgeous!
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Edited by - HannahB on 11/21/2008 10:08:41 AM |
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Saxman
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Posted - 12/01/2008 : 10:04:26 AM
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I agree as well! I don't know what it is, but I just love seeing the human body.
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nudelonewolf
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Posted - 01/09/2009 : 10:56:29 PM
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In addition to that, the inside, the parts you can't see is incredible. I cherish meeting and getting to know new people.
quote:
Originally posted by honeysuckle
Yeah, I agree with parts of what you said, Warmskin, but I still think there's curiosity and mystery and interest in the nude human body. I think the human body is magnificent ... I never get tired of looking at bodies, whether male or female, black or white, large or small. They're all beautiful, from toes to eyes to tummies to penises and breasts. They're all God's creation, and they're magnificent :)
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sunnymelissa
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Posted - 01/12/2009 : 12:59:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by honeysuckle
quote:
Originally posted by emwavehunter
My negative response was a reaction based upon many years of being a System Engineer, Web Developer and security professional.
That's interesting ... my negative response was a reaction based upon many years of having my chest stared at by adolescent males (whatever their age).
LOL Honey!! Right there with ya!
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Posted - 12/01/2012 : 06:44:34 AM
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are we allowed to jhave sex in nudidt colonies?
vinita
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