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Admin
Forum Admin
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 Posted - 07/01/2009 : 2:55:40 PM
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Cheri Alexander (and alter ego Teva) are banned from NRO
We don't usually start a new Announcements thread when someone gets banned, but since Cheri has contributed since the early days of this forum, some detailed explanation would be appropriate to inform the membership.
As many of you know, Cheri served as Moderator for most of the 7 years we have been in operation. In late 2008 administrators noticed there were many posts that had been altered by "Moderator" without indicating the change and which policy had been invoked. One member caught Moderator altering the content of a member's post, and demanded an explanation. Our investigation showed that the post in question was not outside our posting guidelines, but had been altered by Moderator because she disagreed with its content. Cheri's status as working moderator under username "Moderator" was then permanently revoked.
Also in late 2008, Cheri was reprimanded with a 30 day ban for resort bashing. In this case, a member had asked for information regarding resorts in the Tampa area, and Cheri indicated one resort was undesirable without having visited the destination, nor providing detailed reasons for her assessment. The 30 day ban would expire October 30. Cheri disappeared entirely at this point, and never returned to post again under her old username.
On October 22, one week before the ban was to expire, "Teva" appeared, bearing exactly the same IP and posting style as Cheri. Many members mentioned this similarity. This Teva's profile indicated she was from FL, which the IP from Columbia, SC shows to be an overt deception.
At this time, in response to inquiries by members, Admin posted, "Cheri chose to disappear permanently after receiving a 30 day ban for repeated resort bashing. However, someone with an uncanny resemblance to her in every way appeared just a few days short of that ban expiring. In this special case we are allowing this, in light of Cheri's continuing contribution to nudism and her help to those asking for information. We are certainly not fooled by the deception, and are dismayed she chose this strategy to reappear as Teva. Cheri is not currently under any ban, and can log in and post at any time under her old username 'Cheri'."
On 06/04/2009, "Teva" posted in a topic, Looking for a club or resort near Greenville SC malicious and unverified statements regarding a resort in the SC area.
Admin then posted in that thread, "Now Teva/Cheri, we've been through this before. Your statements here are vague and maliciously negative. How is anyone supposed to weigh your issues? We certainly can't, based on what you've provided. Also, since you are running a competing nudist enterprise in that area, your motives are suspect.
"You should either go back and amend your statement so that it is specific enough for our readers, or face a ban for resort bashing. You know the rules here."
This post was brought to the attention of Teva by email. After 10 days, the post had not been amended, nor had we received any response from Cheri/Teva. Cheri Alexander is now under a permanent ban.
Cheri has enjoyed a rich benefit from her participation on NRO. She has taken full advantage of our policy of allowing links to be included in each member's signature. This is a privilege to be enjoyed only by members in good standing. To date, links to her non-landed nudist club appeared on 627 pages of our authority nudist site, with mention of her club appearing on 712 pages. This privilege has been withdrawn, and the 3518 links included in each of her posts are disabled. Our text filter will prevent further posting of these links or the club name.
Please remember that resort bashing cannot be allowed in this forum, and we will not allow judgment to be made on a particular destination based on one member's opinions. Negative comments without detail, fairness and confirmation will not be allowed under any circumstances. In Cheri's case, it is unfortunate it had to arise to a permanent ban, but we are just not willing to allow her to reappear under a third persona.
Another detailed explanation regarding our policy in this situation can be read here.
Well, that's the whole story. We welcome feedback, provided everyone remains respectful in the questions and opinions.
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Balto Bob
$ Supporter
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desertnude
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/01/2009 : 7:22:27 PM
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Wow, Bob, seems like kind of a strong reaction to something that on the surface seems to be quite reasonable!
Michael
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thornapplebison
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Posted - 07/01/2009 : 8:42:33 PM
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All too often I have seen male posters defending female posters for doing precisely those things the same male posters would rail against another male poster for doing.
We want female posters, certainly, and Cheri was a major contributor...but why would we want anyone who blatantly and repeatedly violates the rules? It's no strike against her as a person. I've always liked her. But I'd hate for this to become a free-for-all where everyone was allowed to behave like that...and I'd hate even more for just one person to turn this entire website into a defacto advertisement for her business.
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ttech
New Member
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Posted - 07/01/2009 : 9:07:20 PM
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if we cant express our opinion on events witnessed then what can we post! the events that she was talking about happened while her non landed club was at the resort in question.
I personally welcome opinions on events experienced or witnessed. But i also reserve final judgment for myself.
on another note, we see too many of the nudist clubs/resorts have been leaning more to the sex trade. i personally would like to know if i need to watch for.
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:57:43 AM
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Don't be afraid to post your true experiences, negative or positive. Just be detailed, fair and balanced, and if you must describe adult behavior keep your description PG-rated for this forum. Most importantly your trip reports must be first hand observations, and never hearsay.
We couldn't tell from what she had posted whether she or anyone else had actually witnessed anything first hand, or what exactly they had witnessed. This is and has been the problem. We have plenty of posters who have had unexpected experiences but have posted well and fairly, with enough detail so that the reader can make their own judgment based on several sources. This is how you should post if you have a negative experience. If what you post is true for others, others will come in and post their similar experiences. If no one else posts anything similar, then your experience was an isolated one and doesn't belong as part of the destination's permanent internet reputation. As we compare notes, we learn what is the rule. See for instance our discussions regarding - - or Rooftop Inn, versus an entirely different adult atmosphere such as - -. Many members have posted in a detailed and balanced manner, which has been invaluable in determining what the rule or norm is for each establishment, and whether we will include it as part of our recommended nude recreation catalog.
Before we can determine our relationship with a particular establishment, we need to hear enough credible first hand reports from our members. In some cases we may determine, based on this information, that a particular resort is not eligible for advertising or promotion in this forum. This can occur when a destination misrepresents the level of adult activity a guest can expect, or where allowing overt sex acts in the common area is part of the business model. For this type of destination we do not provide support.
Posting negative comments carelessly can affect an establishment's bottom line, especially in a struggling economy. Such a poster should carefully consider what they are posting before hitting the submit button. Spreading vague and maliciously negative slurs against your competing nudist clubs cannot be helpful, and we will not allow it here.
So please, provide your first hand, detailed trip reports, keeping the above considerations in mind.
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NudeAl
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/03/2009 : 10:50:15 AM
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It is begining to sound to as if you only want us to report the good news. I think this is the opposite of what needs to happen we need to be watchful else our values become corrupted and we begin turning a bind eye to deviant behavior. I have read much of what Cheri posted and I have never found her to be off the mark when it comes to honestly reporting on nudism and nudist issues. If we can't talk honestly here then I will begin looking elsewhere for conversation.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep. -- Robert Frost
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SunTanMan
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/03/2009 : 11:57:25 AM
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Good riddance.
You can't go around slamming a Club based on someone else's experience or what might be just malicious gossip.
I read the thread in question very carefully and it looked like Cheri/Tevi was just playing Club politics. ie, why did she keeping repeating that club members from one club were going to another club for the Fourth?
Also, she never said that she had personally witnessed the alleged misbehavior and Admin gave her every opportunity to correct or clarify her post.
Admin does a great job keeping this forum running at its high level and deserves our praise and not any criticism when he performs his duties.
Have a nice holiday all,
STM
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jw1
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Posted - 07/03/2009 : 2:23:03 PM
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I always find it interesting that the conservative nudists like Cheri/Teva plead for open-mindedness from the general populace but are unwilling to grant the same open-mindedness to those of us who may enjoy a more adult atmosphere at times.
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balataf
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/03/2009 : 10:01:48 PM
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Never met Cheri, altho she has continued posting at Phi Nu.
I do miss Melissa Starr, who helped introduce my Wife and myself to social Nudism, when she lived a few blocks away and attended my Wife's church. If I recall, she too, was banned for a while as a part of this mess.
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Nudony
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/03/2009 : 11:35:24 PM
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I have met Cheri several times a few years back. My first real social nudist experience was with her; she took me in almost unhesitantly and made me feel that I was "part of the family." When I brought my wife to meet her, Cheri's "nudist spirit" was so inspirational to her that in merely a couple of hours of being around her, my wife transitionned from semi-reluctant spouse ("I'm not going to get naked today, no way!") to full-fledged nudist (next thing I knew, she was walking around completely nude and interacting with the other nude guests). Seeing my wife standing openly and completely nude next to Cheri left me with no doubt that she is an incredibly positive force in the world of nudism. So Cheri has earned a special place in my heart.
But certainly, it can also be said that Cheri is very opinionated. Which has at times alienated some people. I haven't followed the recent debacle here; so I can't speak on it. But what I will say is: let us not condemn her for this one event here. She has touched a lot of people's lives, and is still an important figure in promoting the clothesfree way of life.
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FireProf
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/06/2009 : 02:40:52 AM
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We are all "opinionated!" Some are not only "opinionated" but also "hypocrits!"
You speak of free speech but chastise those that speak it. You want the truth but only if it suits you or your personal interests.
The Admin has banned others after Cheri's first banning that did nothing...nothing but question the Admins motives and questions regarding the first banning.
I too left after Cheri and Melissa were banned. I spoke up about it then, as I am now and was not banned.........
Cheri has never spoken ill about a club or resort without good, solid information, either firt hand or from friends she could trust that they information given to here regarding such club/resort....just like any of us do and would do. Many, many nudists have confided in her for advice. She is an asset to any naturist website and any...ANY board that dismisses this will be filled with, just like all the other boards, nothing but men talking about the same damn, stupid topics that are usually all sexually based and have nothing to do with naturism.
The Admin here is after something that many of you shouldn't fall into. There are plenty of naturist sites out there where you can speak your mind and give your opinions without fear of being banned. There are more important things in life than keeping you membership on a site that stifles your opinions if they do not mesh with theirs.
Good bye NRO.......for the last time.
FP
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NaturistDoc
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Posted - 07/06/2009 : 10:52:35 AM
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This all reminds me of a quote attributed (wrongly) to Henry Kissinger regarding political disputes in academia: The disputes are so vicious because the stakes are so small.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but alienating two of the more prolific posters (Cheri/Teva and now FireProf) seems a little counter-productive, all the more so because those two, unlike many others, actually talked frequently about Nudist Resorts istead of discussing the finer points of pubic hair shaving. Oh well. I wish it could have been handled differently. No doubt others will come along to fill the void, but we will miss these two distinctive voices.
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 07/06/2009 : 3:00:13 PM
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Cheri and Melissa were indeed a help to the nudist community. Especially Cheri, who seemed to have a response for almost any question. We wish they had continued to speak well of the resorts they supported, and had stayed clear of mounting smear campaigns against their chosen enemies. They had so much to offer, and we will miss them.
Please understand this was not the first warning Cheri had received from us. In private emails we've gone around and around this, and the response was always, "Kevin, it's your website." But the behavior didn't stop.
In Melissa's case, she was banned indefinitely, but not permanently. She was only defending her "mom" with both fists flying. It was not a recurring problem. But she'd at least have to communicate with us before we'd restore her posting privileges.
FireProf, thank you for your comments. At least you are civil and specific enough so I can sense how to respond to you.
What is happening here is a clash of two belief systems, or paradigms, also called a paradigm shift. Here are the two major belief systems regarding nudism:
- Paradigm #1 The essence of nudism is that no one is allowed to think or behave sexually in any manner while nude. Sexually suggestive clothing or behavior is forbidden, even while only adults are present. This is so the authorities won't think we're perverts. Any groups offering these activities are to be hated and attacked in the media. There is only one kind of nudism.
- Paradigm #2 The essence of nudism is that clothing does not change natural behavior. People can be expected to know how to behave in various contexts, and to refrain from overt sexual acts. We trust the authorities to recognize that dirty dancing in sexy costume is not a sex act. Hateful attacks upon establishments advertising truthfully and within these guidelines are not allowed. Nudism comes in many colors.
We, the Society for Understanding Nudism (SUN), recognize and support Paradigm Two. AANR and other ultra-conservative groups and individuals seem to operate under Paradigm One. The problem with Paradigm One is that it is becoming outdated and unsustainable. There are very few destinations in the US, perhaps less than ten, that truly adhere to this belief system in practice. In this Internet age it is doubtful the public will continue to buy the idea that only Paradigm One exists.
Paradigm Two is a larger umbrella, but it's not infinite. On the conservative side, those will be excluded who say one thing and do another regarding nudism (a hypocrite), or those who cannot accept and peacefully co-exist with less conservative people. On the liberal side, those will be excluded who cannot abide by local rules of behavior, or those who in any manner encourage overt sex acts in common areas. Within the umbrella will be groups that don't naturally mix well, and this is where honest advertising comes in so nudists of all kinds can find a comfortable destination.
One thing that sets Nudist-Resorts.Org apart from other trip report websites is that we care more for our industry. We are dedicated to nudism. We will not allow a conservative individual or group to post libelous attacks without a clear majority presenting the same issues. This is partly because we do not wish to be parties to libel. It's our reputation on the line, not the anonymous posters such as 'Teva', who feel comfortable posting negative attacks on NRO, while the same material doesn't appear on any website under Cheri Alexander's control. This is perhaps because she doesn't want to be the recipient of a summons for libel. If she feels this way let her put her own name on the line. This is hypocrisy. We will not be used in this manner for petty politics and ax grinding.
Come on, Fire, don't give up on us! Slow down, you'll express yourself better. Provide a link to where I spoke of free speech, since I don't see the one you're referring to. We did have a very active discussion about resort bashing and free speech here. Also, the posting rules page has some specific statements I've made about freedom of speech.
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NaturistDoc
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Posted - 07/06/2009 : 3:40:50 PM
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"Paradigm shift"? It sounds more like a false dichotomy to me.
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Balto Bob
$ Supporter
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Posted - 07/06/2009 : 4:09:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Balto Bob
We have lost many members along the way. I will never understand why you are such an ***hole.
While,I did not always agree with Cheri's thinking. She was/is a VERY public spokesperson for nudism. Something MANY here can't or won't do. I post under my real name but, I'm a nobody. Teva was a poor imitation. Frankly, no great loss.
Kevin, I thought deleting the links was petty and vindictive (hense the a-hole). You wouldn't dream of deleting her posts(and she can't). Most of the threads wouldn't make sense.
Bob
Have a nice NUDE day !!
www.flickr.com/photos/isisdc/2560300492/
www.flickr.com/photos/perspective/2560521247/
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Cheri Alexander (and alter ego Teva) are banned
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