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TigerTiger
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 Posted - 08/11/2012 : 8:44:14 PM
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You are welcome to discuss any sort of discrimunation you or someone you know have experienced at a nudist resort, club, cruise, or other event.
I experienced a sexist entry requirement at a resort I will not name, in keeping with forum rules. Single men, even if visiting for just the day, had to have proof of staying at another nudist resort before being allowed to visit this one. Unless, of course, you bought AANR membership, and in that case they suddenly don't care. I guess money talks even among nudist areas. This discrimination was "to keep gender ratio" they said, although if that were the case, it would apply to everyone at all times, not just non-members for the first time. This also has nothing to do with security, as a background check is not even an option. Luckily for me I had a receipt from another nudist resort, but that one didn't have any entry restrictions. If I hadn't stayed at another resort before, it would be like a Catch-22 situation, and it's not fair. The rule itself does nothing for ratio or security, and only makes the resort sexist.
What about you?
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Bob Knows
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/12/2012 : 09:05:28 AM
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I agree with you entirely Tiber. In the US, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on sex in any "public accommodation" such as restaurants or hotels, etc. It was enacted to stop racial discrimination, but they included "race, religion, sex, or national origin" as prohibited reasons to discriminate between customers. So a resort or hotel that discriminates against men is in clear and open violation of the law. If the law was not continually ignored when the approved group (men) get discriminated against, it would be a good place for a lieyer and client to make some money suing. And such lawsuits would teach other nudist resorts to operate legally.
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FireProf
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Posted - 08/12/2012 : 10:08:41 AM
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Obviously ... the way clubs and resorts are getting away with this is that they become private clubs with dues paying members. This obviously allows them to bend the rules.
One resort was being sued or threatened with a lawsuit because it changed it's policy to not allow children under 18. They've recently begun to have guests ... "join" as members for a nominal fee of $10 bucks to fall into the private club/resort category in hopes that will take care of the lawsuit.
I'm not entirely against a "balance" of males and females but it seems that clubs are so inconsistant with rules and policies and to whom they are aimed at, imposed on and who they are not. I've stated this before. I was seeking entrance into a club once, I was being grilled in the manager's office and when I finally had had enough, I pulled out my FD ID card and badge and said ... "do you think I'm going to jeapordize a 25+ yr career, to date, my pension and my family to see several naked people?"
I no sooner said and showed proof of my being a firefighter and the manager's tone changed immediately from 3rd degree questioning to inviting me to Christmas dinner! (sarcasm)
That was wrong in my opinion. I shouldn't be treated any differently than the next guy but ... they did and they do and that's what I have issue with. As long as someone behaves themselves, isn't a threat to anyone at the club or resort and IMO is willing to join a national organization to promote this lifestyle ... then I don't see a reason to disallow anyone entrance.
Some may scoff at the "willing to join a national org" remark but ... I equate that with several other things that some take advantage of off the backs of others and refuse to contribute. I don't agree with everything the national naturist organizations do BUT ... I do support them and we are members.
I wish you luck with your ability to gain access into some of the clubs. It's probably best to call around and ask what their policies are. Some of these clubs are even making it tougher by stating that single males can ONLY visit on certain days. When they continue to limit the amount of days, the criteria for entrance and they are few and far between that will even allow single males ... you're between a rock and hard place of joining in the social aspect of the lifestyle.
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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freecospirit
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/12/2012 : 11:51:23 AM
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In the UK we have similar laws on discrimination but virtually all Naturist Clubs do not allow single males, there is even a Female only naturist club. Well I say female only because only females are allowed to be members though they can take males in as guests. I do not believe that the anti discrimination laws operate in quite the same way for private clubs. The problem is that a lot of single males are predatory, which is unfair on those that are not, there is no way of telling the genuine from the predatory at face value. One of the main reasons given by local councils in the UK for not allowing more naturist places is that undesirable males cause upset. The few badly behaved ones spoil the outlook for everyone. They alienate the public generally giving us all a bad name, force clubs to discriminate, discourage females and often put off genuine would be naturists of both sexes.
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rabbitnbunny
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/12/2012 : 1:29:54 PM
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Yes there are single males who cause problems. There are married males who cause problems. There are married women who cause problems. THE PROBLEM, is a blanket assumption by resorts that single males are THE ONLY problem.
I've experienced it myself. Resort managers who view themselves as the all powerful, front line of defense to protect "their" resort against the onslaught of marauding single males trying to batter down the gates. Absolute power corrupts, etc.
When my ex and I divorced, I was no longer welcome at the resort we belonged to, because I was a single male. I learned a few years later, the manager who denied me further membership, split up with HIS wife, and yet, continued to be the manager there as a single male. Dripping with hypocrisy.
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Edited by - rabbitnbunny on 08/12/2012 1:30:56 PM |
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Bob Knows
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/13/2012 : 12:50:25 AM
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"Males" are the new "niggers." Its all in who you are prejudiced against.
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blavan
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Posted - 08/13/2012 : 12:35:27 PM
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We have experienced getting hit on by single males and married males at nudist resorts more than once. We know of at least 4 males and one couple that have been booted out because of their behavior. Naturist women particularly object to this kind of behavior.
While recognizing that not all men behave this way, women feel more comfortable in nudist settings where there is gender balance. Otherwise they would not be present. That is a fact, and complaining about it will never change it.
We know numerous single men and women who visit nudists resorts. Individual club policies vary regarding singles. That is also a fact that will not change. Bring a female with you and it will be problem solved.
Being Naked and Being Real
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n/a
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Posted - 08/13/2012 : 3:50:47 PM
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I have never had any issues being a single male in the past at the resort I went to but I did enjoy my tour I got from them. They had an open house on same day so many others could come in freely and see what nudism was about. After my tour I was told I was welcome to remain all day free of charge and enjoy the resort so I did. I went to my vehicle got my towel was making my way to the pool area there was a woman sitting on a chair just to make sure those who entered were nude so she told me as I approached her if I wanted to swim I would need to take off my clothes so I did so in front of her as if to say, big deal I am now naked.
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TigerTiger
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Posted - 08/13/2012 : 4:14:04 PM
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Blavan, your suggestion to bring a woman along is just a workaround and misses the point completely. Resorts don't exist just to make women feel comfortable, but for everyone. You say complaining does nothing, but silence does nothing. Bringing awareness and speaking against the issue is the first step to change, no matter how unlikely it is.
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Bob Knows
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/13/2012 : 8:23:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by blavan
We have experienced getting hit on by single males and married males at nudist resorts more than once. We know of at least 4 males and one couple that have been booted out because of their behavior. Naturist women particularly object to this kind of behavior.
While recognizing that not all men behave this way, women feel more comfortable in nudist settings where there is gender balance. Otherwise they would not be present. That is a fact, and complaining about it will never change it.
We know numerous single men and women who visit nudists resorts. Individual club policies vary regarding singles. That is also a fact that will not change. Bring a female with you and it will be problem solved.
Being Naked and Being Real
Yep. White people always used to "feel more comfortable" in restaurants, hotels, train stations, etc., that didn't allow "niggers."
That's why they passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibited discrimination based on race, sex, religion, or national origin.
Men are the new "niggers."
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blavan
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/15/2012 : 5:53:28 PM
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The nastiness of some of the comments here are not justified. Resorts should do all that is possible to make every person comfortable. At a typical family resort, if women and families are not there, then the resort cannot survive financially. You cry-babies ought to just bring a female and quit your crying. The more you cry the more angry and pitiful you become. If gender balance is not important to you or if you do not like women, then perhaps you should go to a nudist resort where there are only men. A resort that caters to men should do just fine since you have indicated that a typical social experience where numerous women are present is not important to you, and you do not care about other people being comfortable. If you do not care whether or not women are comfortable, and you cannot find a suitable male resort then stay home and be naked there. Anger is not going to change the gender balance issue. A nudist resort is a relaxing place for us. All of that anger that some of you are experiencing cannot be good for you.
Being Naked and Being Real
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Edited by - blavan on 08/15/2012 5:59:50 PM |
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Bob Knows
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/15/2012 : 6:33:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by blavan
The nastiness of some of the comments here are not justified. Resorts should do all that is possible to make every person comfortable.
Yep, bigotry is pretty nasty. That's what they used to say as an excuse to have whites only restaurants, hotels, and resorts. Then the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibited discrimination based on race or sex! Nudist resorts just need to obey the law.
Men are the new "niggers."
[Admin's note: Bob Knows is permanently banned from this forum. Members, please notify me immediately of any instance of offensive or racist language. We have zero tolerance for those who would destroy the camaraderie of our forum. If you're made uncomfortable by anyone, let me know about it, and I'll determine if the behavior is outside our guidelines.]
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Edited by - Bob Knows on 08/15/2012 6:36:23 PM |
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NaturistDoc
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/15/2012 : 6:40:07 PM
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Easy now. We're all supposed to be on the same team, right? The name-calling just shuts off the rational part of the discussion.
I wish we could hear from some resort owners/managers. My guess is that they are terrified to one degree or another of ending up in court when an incident of pedophilia or rape or sexual harassment happens, or is alleged to have happened, on their watch. It wouldn't take too many cases like that to get a resort closed down, and a smart owner/manager is going to take steps, even apparently discriminatory ones, to minimize the risk. I'd wager that if a survey was taken of resort managers, they would say that complaints of bad behavior involve, in decreasing order of frequency:
1. Unaccompanied men
2. Swinger men who 'recruit' too aggressively
3. Drunks of either gender who just get stupid
4. Everybody else
I would further wager that complaints against group 1 outnumber all the others. Unfortunately, I know of no data to support or refute these suppositions, nor do I think that AANR or TNS is likely to publish such information even if they had it. (This would be a great project for a Sociology grad student!)
It's unfortunate that some single men get excluded simply for categorical reasons, but it's not totally fair to condemn resort owners for practicing risk management.
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rabbitnbunny
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Posted - 08/15/2012 : 10:46:55 PM
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Except we're obviously not all on the same team, as blavan has so aptly demonstrated with his nudist version on Jim Crow laws.
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blavan
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/17/2012 : 09:27:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NaturistDoc
Easy now. We're all supposed to be on the same team, right? The name-calling just shuts off the rational part of the discussion.
I wish we could hear from some resort owners/managers. My guess is that they are terrified to one degree or another of ending up in court when an incident of pedophilia or rape or sexual harassment happens, or is alleged to have happened, on their watch. It wouldn't take too many cases like that to get a resort closed down, and a smart owner/manager is going to take steps, even apparently discriminatory ones, to minimize the risk. I'd wager that if a survey was taken of resort managers, they would say that complaints of bad behavior involve, in decreasing order of frequency:
1. Unaccompanied men
2. Swinger men who 'recruit' too aggressively
3. Drunks of either gender who just get stupid
4. Everybody else
I would further wager that complaints against group 1 outnumber all the others. Unfortunately, I know of no data to support or refute these suppositions, nor do I think that AANR or TNS is likely to publish such information even if they had it. (This would be a great project for a Sociology grad student!)
It's unfortunate that some single men get excluded simply for categorical reasons, but it's not totally fair to condemn resort owners for practicing risk management.
Thanks NaturistDoc for your comments. Sorry for using the term "cry-baby". It is important for nudists to promote nudism in a positive light.
There are reasons why club owners take the steps that they do. Anyone who does some research, as I have, will discover that there have been criminal incidents and harrassment incidents at nudist clubs. They have overwhelmingly been committed by unaccompanied males and by some swingers. The criminals nearly caused the closing of some of the clubs. Not all unaccompanied males and swingers commit these offences. We know swingers at nudist clubs who respect the boundaries of those who do not swing. We have also seen several get booted out for unacceptable behavior. Have not seen evidence of that being committed by anyone in a family unit yet. The evidence is available online, in archived nudist and naturist publications and in research libraries. I agree that it is unfortunate that some unaccompanied males are excluded. Unfortunately the owners do the best they can to protect their guests, their businesses, and the practice of nudism by limiting their exposure.
These owners do not have the perfect solution. Anger directed at them and at those who support them for their policies will not alter the status quo.
These resort owners should not be condemned for protecting nudism the best they know how. As nudists we should support them.
Being Naked and Being Real
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Carnelian
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Posted - 08/19/2012 : 4:18:04 PM
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Having been to nudist places on and off as a visitor since the 80's I have experienced the same treatment. Mainly in the midwest (USA) not in Fla or elsewhere. Single men are usually personna non grata. The n word is inappropriate here. But I agree with them on one thing. I think it is right to have some proper m/f ratio. As a hetero, I am not interested in a surplus of many men. That's a turn off to me. Maybe nudist places are concerned about attracting gays.Besides, It is not just the owners who can be unfriendly but also the couples in these resorts take innocent comments I made and tell the owners that I had "intentions" of some supposedly wrong kind. I am fed up with it.
I am a private and shy person who would never say something weird. Now I say very little and in the last three years, I have not gone to any resorts or clubs and I rarely go. Especially to Indiana places I won't mention.At one large club, after I paid to get in, I was told not to drive around because I was cruising! You know, I might see some skin. I don't miss these resorts because I was bored anyway.
Some say I should just bring a date. If it was that easy!!
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Discrimination at Nudist Resorts
