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Nudony
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Posted - 12/07/2012 : 08:45:41 AM
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And I'm with FP and BRN on this one! :)
I STILL support being nude at the resort. I practiced it, my loved ones practiced it: we left our clothes in the car; and didn't put anything back on until we were ready to leave. But no one is talking about lingerie by the pool area in the middle of the day (at least I wouldn't think so).
These are "events", usually in the evening, usually for adults. These events are usually about "partying", creativity and fun - in a way that would not be possible in the textile world. And it's not always just lingerie; some choose more creative outfits like togas, see-through dresses, laced outfits that could not be worn anywhere else.
These "party folks" are very often regular nudists during the day; as nude as the rest of us. It's just that later in the evening they hang around, turn up the music, put on something fun, and party.
Speaking of traditional nudism: back in the 60's nudists held all kinds of parties; Christmas, Halloween, Toga parties. Not to mention nudist pageants. Partying and celebrations - nude or C/O - have been a part of nudist culture for a loooong time.
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nudesunguy
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Posted - 12/07/2012 : 11:22:55 AM
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I agree with the Admin's post that it's hard to draw a solid line on this. We'd all agree (I think) that a bondage workshop is a bit much. Leather and chains at the dance...getting iffy? A G-string and push up bra...not a problem for most, but the wrong message for some. I think "dressing up" for holidays is fun (wearing nothing but a Santa hat or a mask), but some of the outfits I've seen are quite sexy. Not that I'm offended, just kind of surprised since as nudists we always go out of our way to say that a nudist environment is NOT about sex...and that we are trying to hold the line between nudists and swingers. I guess that concept is more flexible at night...
Speaking of clothing at nudist resorts; we've noticed a trend of many women during the day putting on a sarong when walking about the resort, ordering drinks/food, dining, etc. Recently we've even seen guys doing this. Then at night the sexy outfits come out. What happened to good old nudity; is it only for poolside?
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allnaturalwife
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Posted - 12/07/2012 : 6:37:57 PM
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I will site a few specific examples in reference to the last few posts. In reference to lingerie pool side in "the middle of the day" Over this past summer, our local nudist club ( I won't name it here, but one of southern ca mainstay nudist destinations, many of you might guess) on many occasions had vendors selling all types of lingerie and sexually suggestive costumes..DURING the day. They would have several women volunteer and parade around the POOL AREA in all of this crap, with many children around. Second of all,as far as Christmas, Halloween and the like..we are not talking about "Santa hats, or regular Halloween costumes..we are talking about sexual based stuff here. Believe me I am far from a prude..but I think all of this "hybrid nudism" is not what the lifestyle we all love should be about.
Also I would not classify a sarong even in the same ball park as a see through lace dress. Furthermore, in reference to this stuff only happening at "night" ...Another example... A few summers ago our club held a dance with an outdoor band. UNLIKE most of the bands they actually played music newer than 1975!!which attracted a few under 50!! (Sorry another pet peave of mine having children in their 20s who would like to hear music that they at least recognize!!). Anyway, a friend of our family was there with her daughters ages 6, 10, and 12 or so.. There were all sorts of women in sex costumes, Appropriate??
The mother was actually asked to leave and take her children back to their camp site, or at least away from the band area..which was OUTSIDE by the pool, since it was not an "appropriate environment for kids"
Many of you might think..makes sense..NO IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT. First of all it was 8:30 pm!!!! NOT 10pm.
Second at a family nudist resort their shouldn't be "an inappropriate environment for children, EVER! Kind of an oxymoron..don't ya think? "FAMILY nudist resort".."inappropriate for kids"
Jenn
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Diger
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Posted - 12/08/2012 : 01:20:13 AM
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Jenn,
I agree 100%, that's not being family friendly. Seems some of these places are selling out to the lifestyle crowd like others have in the past and in my opinion it is sad.
Diger
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n/a
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Posted - 12/08/2012 : 07:45:22 AM
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I think alot of the so called family resorts are really just swinger clubs in hiding they front as a nude resort simply being they dont want to just come out and say adult only club etc. I lived in Fla for like 27 years and we have many nude resorts there and I was kind of upset to find out that most of them were really just sex clubs. But I think a few finally lost their AANR endorsement.
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nudesunguy
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Posted - 12/08/2012 : 09:56:13 AM
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Well said, Allnaturalwife.
You missed my point about sarongs; I wasn't saying they are sexy; I meant that I think it's odd so many women (and some men) are now wearing clothing (during the day when it's warm out) at a nudist/co resort (maybe they are taking "clothing-optional" literally).
I suspect a big part of the motivation for the lingerie parties, etc. comes down to economics. Obviously the owners of clubs wouldn't hold such events if there wasn't a demand and/or financial need. Because of the graying of the nudists ranks there are no longer enough "family nudists" to pay the bills at many places. For example, the large club we used to go to had dozens of children back 15 years ago when our kids were going up. Last year when we went we saw only a handful of small children; no teens. Kind of sad, but the world marches on, for better or worse.
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FireProf
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 Posted - 12/08/2012 : 11:48:08 AM
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OK ... let's back up a second. "Our" club, mine and ANW's has had these theme parties were members and guests dress up/down in "theme" costume. Our club just had a "Leather and Lace" event. There was mention of an event where parents of children were asked/told to take their children away from the dance floor because of the "sex costumes" some of the women were wearing.
Who authorized this event at a family club? What was their intent? Was this brought to the boards attention? Was there uprising against these types of events to the Rec Director/Planner/Coordinator? We can complain ALL we want here on this site and on every other site but until someone is willing to stand up in a board meeting, challenge the events that are being offered and finding out WHY these are being offered ... it makes no sense to automatically think that a club is NOT family oriented until you get ALL the FACTS!
Wearing lingerie does NOT make a woman a "swinger." Come on ... what next ... every man and woman with a tattoo is a gang banging, motorcycle ridin' bad person? A person with piercings must only be into B&D/S&M? What has happened to the people in this lifestyle. YOU want everyone else to accept us, what we do and how we live and recreate BUT ... within our own ranks ... we still have to have it "our" way or it's not nudism and certainly not wholesome nudism. Seems prudish to me.
I fail to see how my wife wearing a lace cover up/dress to an evening event somehow classifies her as a swinger or dressing like that ONLY to be sexy to others. Would those with pierced nipples and navels want others to classify them as the same?
Some are mixing "swinger" attire with other pretty tame things and you're mixing up a simple dress with whips and chains, swapping and then next thing ya know ...they'll be orgies and whatnot! Come on ... it's one thing to state an opinion that it's not for you ... but when you begin to make generalized statements about others you don't know ... you're no better than those on the outside making those same comments about us.
ANW made a comment regarding music being played at our club and that ..."the bands they actually played music newer than 1975!!which attracted a few under 50!! (Sorry another pet peave of mine having children in their 20s who would like to hear music that they at least recognize..." But then went on to say in another post ..."We have three adult daughters, who were more raised as "old school nudists" for lack of a better term." Nudism needs to change. IT needs to be flexible, open to change and mostly ... acceptible to ALL of those that like to have fun, like the younger crowd, because the "old school nudists" are leaving us and they are what is keeping others, including the younger people away.
I find it difficult for some of us to remember what changes we went through and what effect it had on our elders, our parents, grandparents ... the music, the dress, the attitudes and certainly the philosophies we wanted for ourselves and not all of those that our parents and grandparents wanted for us.
Having fun, dressing up/down, and letting it all hang out ... shouldn't die with age. I'm not old and neither is the Prof. If she decides to wear something fun ... it's for me and no one else and it certainly doesn't make her a "swinger" or to entice anyone else in that event but her husband.
That's it for me on this topic!
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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Diger
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Posted - 12/08/2012 : 1:22:32 PM
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Fire,
I don't think Jenn was talking about Lace cover-up dresses or sarong when she talked about sex costumes. We have seen some of the lace cover-ups at our beach and no one seems to have a problem with them, we surely don't. When I read her post what came to my mind was something entirely different.
Adorning one’s body has always been common, even dancing and socializing but it should not be something we have to keep our kids away from esp at a family friendly resort.
Diger
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baie rouge nudists
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Posted - 12/09/2012 : 09:39:00 AM
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I have to agree with Mrs. FireProf. Ilove wearing nylons, garter belts, and heels. That doesn't make me a swinger. Joe loves the look and it makes me feel very feminine. Yes I wear it to arouse my man but I also feel it makes a statement about me. I'm a woman and I'm feminine.
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allnaturalwife
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Posted - 12/10/2012 : 5:58:15 PM
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When did I say lingerie=swinger? What I said was lingerie=sexually suggestive. If Mother Teresa walked around a nudist venue in thigh highs it would be sexually suggestive, having nothing to do with the wearer's intent.
One again, wearing these things in an appropriate environment is fine...just NOT at a "family oriented club" or one that makes attempts to be family oriented at least..such as mine.
I maintain that lingerie has no place at nudist resorts, period, and I disagree completely with the whole "accept anything and everything, let people do whatever they want" blanket philosophy that some try to associate with nudism. That is we "like to walk around naked so we must be completely ok with all sorts of other things that quite frankly have NOTHING to do with "liking to walk around naked".
One more point..my club did recently have a "lace and leather event" which was approved by the powers that be. PROBLEM IS..First "the powers that be" median age is over 50. Second the number of young families with children at our club is very small..at least the full time members. We do get quite a few of the younger demographic with kids during the summer months, as maybe FP could agree. Last of all there is a bunch of the "over 60 crowd" that partakes in these dances, so of course any club.. DESPITE objections from the few will please the majority.
My ideal situation would be, if I'm honest, for my club and most.. would be to push them to the more family oriented side of nudism. Hopefully the "majority demographic" of mine while change someday. Guess time will tell.
Jenn
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FireProf
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Posted - 12/12/2012 : 11:50:12 AM
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Okay ...
One LAST comment to clarify something.
Jenn, the comment "lingerie = swinger" was actually made by someone else in this quote:
"Not that I'm offended, just kind of surprised since as nudists we always go out of our way to say that a nudist environment is NOT about sex...and that we are trying to hold the line between nudists and swingers. I guess that concept is more flexible at night..."
The problem lies when some, such as I did, comment or post in response to more than one member's comments. This conversation wasn't between you and I but between several of us giving our opinions. So ... you didn't say "lingerie = swinger" but someone else made that comment and I responded to it in my post. I think you took it that I was responding directly to you.
The point was made that; " I maintain that lingerie has no place at nudist resorts, period..." and in an earlier post; "Also I would not classify a sarong even in the same ball park as a see through lace dress."
SO ... my post that was taken as a direct response from allnaturalwife was actually in response to three posts from ANW and another member. A see through lace dress, I took it as; "lingerie = sexually suggestive"...which I disagreed with and responded to the other member that suggested the line between nudist and swinger.
"Our" club is family oriented but "our" club isn't "the model" nudist club. We do have our own issues we should be working out and these issues are far worse than someone wearing lingerie. You've got the tennis people against the non tennis people, the water volleyball crowd, the volleyball crowd and the pool loungers ... all somewhat separate crowds thinking they own the joint and all with their own preconceived notions of all the others that are not apart of their group. I know you've seen it and it's funny ... there's a sign in the indoor pool suggesting that "anyone" wanting to play can join in but ... try and get in on a team that always states "we already have too many." Seems they want to appear open but are really not.
"Our" club needs to try and "spread" the event calendar around and try and please as many members as possible. Can't please everyone all the time ... as you are well aware. IF "we" are indeed a "family" oriented club ... then some of these events should not be held and the membership should speak up ... but since the vast majority of those that visit, live, are members, or guests are of the older generation, I suspect that the event coordinator is getting feed back from them and NOT from the families or the younger people about what they want, as you stated in your post. The squeaky wheel ...
I do agree that we see more younger couples, singles and families with kids in the summer but I also have to admit that it seems to be the same families I see on most weekends. I don't know what that is and why more people don't bring their kids except that maybe deep in their minds, they think it's not a place for kids. I don't agree but ... since my kids are older and have kids of their own ... I can only speak of my family and not anyone else's. I also have to coordinate with my family's schedule of events so taking our grandkids to participate is limited ... very limited.
Let's get down to another subject. Family friendly. What does that mean exactly? Does it mean that a club caters to a couple with small children? Does it include teenaged children that want to listen to loud music and skate board all over the park and never take their clothes off? Does it include families with 20 something children that want to party til 1 or 2 am? What IS a family oriented club? Because the way I see it ... one family could get upset with another family's idea of family oriented. My "family oriented" philosophy may be different than your family oriented philosophy. I've got grandkids, you have 20 something kids. Are your 20 something kids gonna infringe on my grandkids and my family oriented philosophy? It's all about compromise and give and take. It's all about acceptance and diversity ... we don't all think alike nor should we. What a boring life it would be if we were ALL the same. Variety is the spice of life and just because someone wants to wear "something" doesn't make them any less a nudist, family oriented or a perv or sexually aggressive person.
So ... with that ... I'll be done with this topic!
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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Edited by - FireProf on 12/12/2012 11:56:58 AM |
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allnaturalwife
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Posted - 12/12/2012 : 4:17:01 PM
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I agree with several points made by FP. However, I think I have figured out the crux of the issue with most of the responses here. For most, if not all, of those responding here and in the nudist community two facts come into play. First: there is a huge generational gap between the average nudist and the "next generation" That is, most "discovered" nudism later in life, most with grown children who were out of the house. So your children were never raised going to a nudist club or in a nudist environment. So you don't really have a "horse in the race" of nudist venues being more family oriented. Why would you? Second: As a snowball effect YOUR children, who may be now having children, do not see it important to raise their children as nudists or bring them to nudist clubs as most of them aren't really even nudists themselves. Since again, a large portion of nudists didn't even "discover it" until later in life. How many times have we all heard from someone new to nudism.. "thought we'd give it a shot now that the kids are out of the house"...or a similar type story.
To clarify.. a family oriented club is one that doesn't allow or promote sexually charged environment. NO lingerie being sold or worn, NO overt sexual activity. "20 year olds playing loud music and skateboarding around the park is fine by me" as long as its a reasonable hour. But that's no different than the club's bands playing their loud annoying 50s music late at night. Honestly what the "20 year olds" would be playing I would most likely prefer.
And to clarify, my oldest is closer to 30 with two children of her own, who she is attempting to bring up in the ever "changing for the worse" nudist culture. So her daughter,6 years old, wonders why when the sun goes down, all the "people get dressed" Guess when they come to visit my daughter better not take her kids near the pool area on a hot summer evening at 8:30 pm, so they don't see all the women congregating in their sex costumes before the evening dance at the "family oriented club":(
Once again I will have to agree to strongly disagree with the statement "nudism is about acceptance" Nudism is about enjoying not wearing clothes..Many NUDISTS "HAPPEN TO BE ACCEPTING OF MANY THINGS" There is a difference.
As far as "diversity" goes..HA! Nudists are one of the LEAST diverse group of people out there. The majority are over 50 year old white people. That's just a fact. Very very,small amount of other races and those under 40, young families..etc. That's just the way it is. Many things contribute to it, but that's for another thread.
Jenn
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Edited by - allnaturalwife on 12/12/2012 6:49:52 PM |
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nudesunguy
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Posted - 12/14/2012 : 1:59:46 PM
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OK, since FireProf is putting words in my mouth, I now have to respond. He makes the comment that I said "lingerie=swinger," and then provides a quote to illustrate it. The only problem is that I've looked several times, and the word "lingerie" does NOT appear in the quote ;-). Maybe I wasn't being clear, but what I WAS saying is that lingerie/sexy outfits (as Diger pointed out, many outfits are far beyond lingerie) can create a sexually charged atmosphere…much like the presence of swingers can…whether they are wearing sexy outfits or not. I'm certainly aware that not everyone who dresses in a sexy manner is a swinger; some aren't even sexy! And nobody is being a prude here. Swingers can be fine people and dressing sexy is great. Jenn's issue is that it doesn't belong at a "family" nudist resort, and she makes some valid points.
Let's go back to the original poster who made the statement: "Nudism is associated with being naughty, arousing, sexually charged, kinky, a fringe faction."
As Mrs. baie rouge nudists states above, she dresses in a sexy way to "arouse her man." I can guarantee that if she is arousing her man, she is also arousing other men present, and thus creating a sexually charged atmosphere (and not to pick on her, she's certainly not the only one). Isn't this exactly what many nudists say nudism is NOT about?
My wife and I bought our children up as nudists with frequent visits to a large club. Over the years it seemed as though the dances became more and more "adult," with some spillage over to the pool during the day. It reached a point where we no longer felt completely comfortable bringing our kids there, thus we no longer felt it was "family friendly."
Can anyone blame the original poster for making her statement? And is it any wonder that we now see fewer and fewer young families at some resorts? Something to think about...
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allnaturalwife
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Posted - 12/14/2012 : 3:45:46 PM
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These are good points nudesunguy.
Jenn
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sailawaybob
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Posted - 12/18/2012 : 10:38:17 PM
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I think alot of time it's a revenue thing, alot of nudist places struggle and you know you can make more $$$ owning a KOA than a mom & pop nudist place yeah the big resorts maybe don't have that problem but than I hear that some have the same parties and alot are clothing optional so they are getting the textile crowd too. I knew someone who owned a mom & pop camp put their life saving into it and know that they counted pennies and also had the parties so weather it's right or wrong maybe we would have to put ourselves in their sandals. I always thought it would be cool to have a little nudist camp when I retired but it's a lot easier and cheaper to just visit them.
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