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NaturistDoc
Forum Member


Posted - 08/12/2019 :  1:11:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The news just keeps getting worse. We are losing clothing-optional resorts at a disheartening rate, and there are few if any new ones to take their place.

Just in the Palm Springs area, the Terra Cotta 2.0 has closed, and will re-open under new ownership as a textile resort. Living Waters Spa is up for sale, and there is virtually no chance it will survive as a C/O resort.

Playa Sonrisa in the Yucatan is also on the market, and who knows what new ownership would mean there? And two years after Hurricane Irma, Club Orient is still in ruins, with no signs of re-building, at least as of a few months ago, and is apparently tied up in insurance and legal issues. It's hard to feel optimistic about Club O.

It appears the the Golden Age of clothing-optional resorts is coming to an end. Does anybody have some good news to offer?

Country: USA | Posts: 1054

Daretobare
Forum Member


Posted - 08/20/2019 :  05:10:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unfortunate yes, preventable maybe or probably. In some cases I believe so anyway. A certain word you used in your post I feel is the damaging denominator to what's happening. The word "resort". I think these places label themselves as resorts they can up the costs of everything within it. Memberships are high cost, the rooms you stay in, the food gets pricey and of ritzy taste. Most resorts too unfortunately are patronized by an elderly clientele. Many of which are on limited income.
Example: my wife and I belong to a resort that costs us almost 800 dollars a year for membership. We are able to use it for about 4 to 6 months on account of our seasonal time there. The food in the restaurant is most times gourmet style and pricey. Not uncommon for us to have a bill of 60 or 70 dollars for two of us. The rooms are close to 200 per night. Luckily we don't have to rent them. I once asked during a price increase why..... The general manager said we are a resort and resorts aren't cheap. Right from the horses mouth. When mention different options they turn their heads. Our younger generation aren't into shelling out that kind of money. Im aware before you all go off on me that I don't need to belong or support any such establishment but isn't that kind of being part of the problem if I and others pull away. Why has nudism become such a simple but pricey lifestyle? Even many of your internet forums have become out priced.
Attitudes have also changed with nude society. People are nowdays more sensitive about things, easily offended. Voictruss of the most stupid of things about each other. Such as.... The constant battle back and forth on pubic shaving, greeting others with sunglasses on. So critical of such minor things. There lies my opinion what's going on with he closings or struggling of these places.



Country: USA | Posts: 218 Go to Top of Page

Nude in AK
Forum Member


Posted - 08/20/2019 :  10:57:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Having never been to a 'resort', I do not have anything to compare to. However,this posting got me to wondering. With all that has been going on in the USA, I suspect that there are a lot more changes coming. With all of the 'bad pres' that has been going on, with the sex crimes and anything related to being nude, it is not surprising that there are fewer people enjoying the nude life style. It seems that some of the 'younger' crowd are into not following what a lot of us have taken enjoyed. As for the cost of resorts, a lot more people are looking to make the 'all mighty buck'! One of the reports that came out a while ago showed that a good percentage of young people had no 'saving built up' and had no idea of how to save. Those of us the are retired, have a little saved up but also want our dollars to go a far as possible.
I have gotten to where I enjoy being nude more and more and enjoy that time. I have some that I know, that know I am nude as much as possible and are OK with that and some that are appalled that I would even consider such a thing. I would suspect that we have more changes coming!



Country: USA | Posts: 538 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 08/20/2019 :  11:45:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NaturistDoc

The news just keeps getting worse. We are losing clothing-optional resorts at a disheartening rate, and there are few if any new ones to take their place.

Just in the Palm Springs area, the Terra Cotta 2.0 has closed, and will re-open under new ownership as a textile resort. Living Waters Spa is up for sale, and there is virtually no chance it will survive as a C/O resort.

Playa Sonrisa in the Yucatan is also on the market, and who knows what new ownership would mean there? And two years after Hurricane Irma, Club Orient is still in ruins, with no signs of re-building, at least as of a few months ago, and is apparently tied up in insurance and legal issues. It's hard to feel optimistic about Club O.

It appears the the Golden Age of clothing-optional resorts is coming to an end. Does anybody have some good news to offer?



We were upset about the closing of "Terra Cotta 2.0". On good authority and from people I trust that have their eyes on surroundings and ears to the concrete, at the resort, the Terra Cotta Resort was doomed from the beginning when the owner would rather listen to swingers, fired managers of swingers places, then to listen to a man and woman that operated a very successful clothing optional resort for 21 years. The previous owner and the manager always butted heads with including and excluding the swinger groups and it finally came to a head, in my opinion. The owner could have had health issues that made it easier to just sell rather than allow the manager and his wife to run the place but run it their way and not his, so he sold it. Again, I'm getting this from reliable sources and from guests inside the resort that were there when the word came out.

There is another resort that will begin operating as a clothing optional "resort" in Palm Springs. I'm still waiting for word from the previous owners/managers of the Terra Cotta Inn/Terra Cotta Resort to get back with their take and recommendation on this new place. Look over the website. The Prof and I may go and visit and get a feel for the place and management and clientele as soon as it cools down a bit out in the desert.

https://tuscanymanor350.com/

My concern is that this place won't last too long either. Each time a new place opens, the swinger groups find out, take it over and the real nudists stop returning to visit. Occupancy drops significantly, except for weekends (and not every weekend) and the place goes silent Mon-Fri and revenues drop. These managers/owners want too try and have the two groups coexist but it's been proven over and over again that they can not and the ones that won't respect the space of the other group is the swinger group/groups.

One other thing that bothers the Prof and I; cheap/frugal nudists. These "resorts" don't operate on nickels and dimes. They need our dollars and far too many times, nudists are their own worst enemy with regards to many things nudist. One of them is patronizing the clubs and resorts they like to visit. Complaining about costs to rent an RV spot, entry fees, food, drink... operating a resort, textile or nudist, cost money and if it's not coming in from real nudists, the business/resort owner needs to get if from somewhere and the swinger groups spend the money. It's real nudists own fault if they aren't willing to spend the money. It isn't cheap to run a resort, maintain it, repair it, keep people employed to run it, clean rooms, manage it... one of many reasons we and our friends didn't think too long about not buying the Terra Cotta Inn!

Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Edited by - FireProf on 08/20/2019 11:46:18 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 3175 Go to Top of Page

rkitek
Forum Member


Posted - 08/20/2019 :  12:30:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder if the answer for some on these resorts is to become co-ops. At least that way, cost and decisions are shared among all members. And you don't have to worry about owners passing or retiring and then selling to a textile buyer.


Country: | Posts: 109 Go to Top of Page

NaturistDoc
Forum Member


Posted - 08/22/2019 :  3:40:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems easy to blame the decline of C/O venues on high prices and swingers, but I'm not convinced.

Being in a relatively small niche market, C/O resorts have always charged a premium compared to the equivalent textile resorts, but it hasn't been exorbitant. And why the decline NOW? We're not in a recession, people still have money, and the economy is booming ... or so our President tells us.

As for the swinger vs. nudist conflict, I see that as a choice management has to make, one way or the other. A non-swinger C/O resort should be able to survive ... IF there is a market for it!

And therein, I suspect, lies the problem. The C/O market, for whatever reasons, is dwindling. Need proof? How about this website? I've been a member of this forum since 2005, and the rate of participation has plummeted over the past 7 or 8 years. You can hardly blame that on high prices (it's free!) or swingers (they're moderated out). Maybe it's due to the aging-out of the baby boomers. Maybe societal attitudes have changed. Maybe it's all the above.

I console myself that there are still a few out-in-the sticks resorts within a day's drive in our RV, although the more 'rustic' ones are looking pretty decrepit. And who knows? Maybe Tuscany Manor will make a go of it. We'll see.



Country: USA | Posts: 1054 Go to Top of Page

speedy123
Forum Member


Posted - 08/22/2019 :  6:04:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't kept up with the more major sites like the members above, but I had a feeling even at my club. I suppose they are doing OK, but I have noticed the number and ages of members have gone down and up, respectively. There just doesn't seem to be as many new folks visiting, or becoming members. I hope it works out a creates a new 'golden age'.


Country: USA | Posts: 97 Go to Top of Page

calgarymark
Forum Member


Posted - 08/24/2019 :  12:28:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf
There is another resort that will begin operating as a clothing optional "resort" in Palm Springs. I'm still waiting for word from the previous owners/managers of the Terra Cotta Inn/Terra Cotta Resort to get back with their take and recommendation on this new place. Look over the website. The Prof and I may go and visit and get a feel for the place and management and clientele as soon as it cools down a bit out in the desert.

https://tuscanymanor350.com/

My concern is that this place won't last too long either.

Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FP, I took a look at Tuscany Manor. It does look nice until you come to the policies which exclude the solo male traveller.

CalgaryMark
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional. Laughing at yourself is therapeutic.



Country: Canada | Posts: 184 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 08/24/2019 :  03:30:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NaturistDoc

It seems easy to blame the decline of C/O venues on high prices and swingers, but I'm not convinced.

Being in a relatively small niche market, C/O resorts have always charged a premium compared to the equivalent textile resorts, but it hasn't been exorbitant. And why the decline NOW? We're not in a recession, people still have money, and the economy is booming ... or so our President tells us.

As for the swinger vs. nudist conflict, I see that as a choice management has to make, one way or the other. A non-swinger C/O resort should be able to survive ... IF there is a market for it!

And therein, I suspect, lies the problem. The C/O market, for whatever reasons, is dwindling. Need proof? How about this website? I've been a member of this forum since 2005, and the rate of participation has plummeted over the past 7 or 8 years. You can hardly blame that on high prices (it's free!) or swingers (they're moderated out). Maybe it's due to the aging-out of the baby boomers. Maybe societal attitudes have changed. Maybe it's all the above.

I console myself that there are still a few out-in-the sticks resorts within a day's drive in our RV, although the more 'rustic' ones are looking pretty decrepit. And who knows? Maybe Tuscany Manor will make a go of it. We'll see.




It's not "blame" when you get the facts from someone that's owned and run a C/O resort and has managed another. The numbers don't lie. It's not about convincing anyone, it's facts and they speak for themselves, whether we want to believe them or those sharing the facts.

I don't think it has anything to do with the economy. Nudists have always typically been frugal. If you want to compare these sites to actual clubs and resorts, doesn't take much research to remember the constant whining about the cost of day fees, gate fees, membership fees, cost of food or drink. These sites run their course and I think NRO isn't any different than any other site. The topics of discussion have not only been hashed over but they repeated and hashed over again and again. People get bored with the same topics coming up for discussion so people become bored and leave.

I happened to like this site because it lacks the bells and whistles. There's more communication and discussion and little to no pictures, no chat room, nothing to draw in the fakes and pervs you get on those other sites that offer all the "come ons" to entice membership. What you have here are real nudists just talking and many of those that have left are obviously looking for more than talking/discussing. In my opinion, that's why these numbers are down and other sites like this one. You can't compare, or rather you shouldn't compare this site and it's zero cost to join or the fact that swingers are moderated out to a clothing optional resort. Not even a close comparison.

I think many of us that have enjoyed social nudism for decades are frustrated and looking for answers that make sense and maybe they'll never make sense. We're searching for a reason/reasons for these places closing down. Either way, I've got it on good authority why Terra Cotta 2.0 closed and it was not entirely because of health reasons. We visit clubs and resorts fairly frequently and we talk with people, members, first timers, guests, residents... when they all point the finger at one particular group, it doesn't take much convincing that it plays a big part in the nudists staying away and a clothing optional resort can't survive on just the weekends the players come to play. The Monday-Friday nudists either see this group's actions first hand or hear about the going's on at a particular resort that's caters to this group and they'll decide to stay and away and stop visiting.



I do agree that real nudists are aging and the younger people don't want to get involved in organized nudism or visit clubs and resorts but if you'll remember, there was discussion here about the younger crowd complaining about cost to visit clubs and resorts. There was discussion on what incentives could be offered, such as discounts to get them in the gates.





Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Country: USA | Posts: 3175 Go to Top of Page

Nude in AK
Forum Member


Posted - 08/24/2019 :  2:48:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With all of the 'changes' that are going on in our Country, it does not surprise me that nudism may be loosing favor.


Country: USA | Posts: 538 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 08/28/2019 :  5:52:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is an excellent topic, and it's remained on my mind since day one of NRO.

I perceive it as a riddle of marketing. To promote our lifestyle, the first task is to clearly delineate between our lifestyle and that 'other' lifestyle. Hence NRO and the Society for Understanding Nudism. To compound the confusion, club owners too often try to play the middle game to maximize revenue, without being sensitive to the likely failure of this approach if done without finesse.

At a certain notorious resort that we don't speak of by name, this played out loud and clear. The place went through five managers, each of which had no clue how to market and promote a five-star traditional nudist destination. My ex and I were exasperated to see what could have been the Sandals of nudism being thrown to the wolves. In our frequent and detailed discussions with that fifth manager, it became clear he despised all nudists, as they were "cheap, complained too much and never tipped."

Then came following the money. Said manager called a meeting and announced he was going after the 'low hanging fruit,' meaning lifestyle swingers within driving distance. End of story.

I see it as a marketing problem for a product that is difficult for the public to understand. Owners of resorts often couldn't care less about providing a safe, traditional nudist experience. The bills have to be paid, and swingers often drop wads lots of cash during their short stays.



Country: USA | Posts: 1888 Go to Top of Page

Nudony
Forum Member


Posted - 08/28/2019 :  11:41:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a question for you guys. Is it mostly the more "upscale" resorts that are dwindling, or is it across the board? Seems to me the more "rustic" resorts would have less trouble surviving due to lower overhead costs. Maybe the future of nudism resides in the rustic resorts? Thoughts?




Country: | Posts: 503 Go to Top of Page

Daretobare
Forum Member


Posted - 08/29/2019 :  05:50:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many points of interest here. Probably all of them true to a point. I'd personally think smaller rustic resorts would be more apt to survive the crisis. Many of them are mostly rv or camping style resorts. The rv industry has boomed in the last five years so campgrounds have been quite stable. I've always felt that bigger isn't better. Many larger resorts keep pushing for bigger things. AANR emails numerous times a year the ups and downs of memberships. I've watched our local well known resort and the membership fluctuates. Sometimes down a member or two other times up. Some of the drop is caused by death of older members. It is generally even though. The owners decided to bring in a manager that has big resort experience to put the place on the map "internationally" as the words said. Mind you too that resort has a waiting list for rv spots.
This manager is not a nudist and has in his mind to develop the resort into a possible textile place. He has sunk loads of money into the changing , upgrading and redevelopment of it. All good I suppose but answer me this.... Isnt your loyal local members, your every year vacationers, every year returning snowbirds money as good as the international money they are seeking? Prices of course rose to accommodate the changes made. Their resteraunt businesses dropped to the point he had to go back to lower prices and better food choices. Just listen to the talk in the pool areas and the residents and you will get an idea of what people want and don't. The manager only answer to these problems is that it's a resort and you have to pay the cost if you want to be there. I think he has to find a balance.



Country: USA | Posts: 218 Go to Top of Page

MrsAzLagoon
Forum Member


Posted - 08/29/2019 :  11:18:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit MrsAzLagoon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The hosts at the new c/o venue in Palm Springs seem to have taken a different direction in life...these are the very same managers of the now closed Hotel Terra Cotta. Just do a search for @nudist_resorts to find out about the Nudist Hottie....

Not promoting it, just sad...

Enjoy the sunshine!

MrsAZLagoon-AKA C-OHome
www.ClothingOptionalHomeNetwork.com



Country: USA | Posts: 259 Go to Top of Page

rkitek
Forum Member


Posted - 08/29/2019 :  1:10:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow. How sad. It would seem a couple that were so involved in the movement, even holding positions within AANR, have turned their backs naturism.


Country: | Posts: 109 Go to Top of Page

calgarymark
Forum Member


Posted - 08/29/2019 :  6:11:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nik and Lins are the 'Naked Wanderers'. Their most recent blog post, about naturism in France, might lead to some ideas for North Americans to consider.
https://www.nakedwanderings.com/blog/2019/08/29/why-french-families-go-massively-for-naturism/

CalgaryMark
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional. Laughing at yourself is therapeutic.

Update 2019 08 30:
I recommended the article by Nick&Lins; at the time I posted the first part above, there were no comments. N&L are young Belgians who have recently discovered naturism and travelled naturist venues around the world; I like their take on what they see. I do not identify with some of the more extensive comments to date!



Edited by - calgarymark on 08/30/2019 1:01:54 PM

Country: Canada | Posts: 184 Go to Top of Page
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