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| Admin |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 11:47:32 PM
This is a thread started to keep this discussion separate from the original thread. In that thread about "pure" nudist resorts, a member lselden had asked,
quote:
Obviously, nudists are individuals, with diverse motivations. Of course there are some who are really voyeurs, who love the pleasure of seeing other naked bodies. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that, even if those are bodies of children, teenagers, mature adults or old people. Perhaps very primitive societies fall in this category, such as some African tribes, where everyone is nude all the time, or some South American Indian tribes, where the people are almost 100% naked all the time. At the same time, in most cases, sexual activity is a delicate, highly-controlled matter, as to time and place. Children are excluded, in most societies, from being audiences for sexual intercourse. Thus, it is appropriate to have adults-only activities, when there will be some overt sexual activity, even very erotic dancing. If a couple or an individual is really interested in having a semi-public (as in nude, or nearly-nude, erotic dancing) sexual nudist experience, it would be fitting to really investigate carefully to make certain that the intended nudist or clothing-optional resort actually caters to, or encourages, this. This probably would not be the place where most families would want to take children, although some families may want their children to be exposed to "nudist loving couples" involved in erotic behavior.
Question: Is there something morally wrong with children seeing adults involved in nude erotic behavior?
Larry Selden
"Is there something morally wrong with children seeing adults involved in nude erotic behavior?"
Please comment in this thread by clicking Reply to Topic . |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Artiewhitefox |
Posted - 12/27/2012 : 01:38:10 AM
Being moral is being like jesus is with whoever. Being moral has nothing to do with what age sees what age having sex, or even conversing about the many kinds of sex. |
| intheflesh |
Posted - 09/14/2011 : 7:00:53 PM
yes sex in front of children is very wrong. but if i am putting suntan lotion on my wife and that includes her butt i hope the kids have been taught that it is not sexual but when you are nude there are parts that need sunscreen the clothed people dont need to worry about |
| Psycho K |
Posted - 09/14/2011 : 04:08:24 AM
I agree with Carmen as well.
I don't believe children are negatively affected by seeing naked erotic behavior by default. It's possible, but with sufficient parenting, it shouldn't be a problem. Kids are very curious, so a problem with them being aware of eroticism at an early age is that they may want to try it themselves. This is not possible because of not being physically developed enough to feel arousal and everything that makes eroticism what it is, or not being mature enough to responsibly engage in such activities. It is possible to explain that as they get older, this will be something they may really want and will be able to seek, but this can be daunting to explain. Especially, if your culture's moral framework contrasts this kind of openness, etc.
A far as home life goes, it's just easier to keep sex itself behind closed doors, but keeping the facts open as Carmen said, is a good way to proceed. |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 05:03:35 AM
You have a very sensible view of things, Carmen. Seeing how other cultures do things is enlightening. Thanks for sharing!
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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| Carmen34 |
Posted - 06/18/2011 : 7:22:20 PM
The question is front-loaded towards a bias by using the word "erotic" rather than "sexual." Speaking only of the USA, no one will openly state "yes, children should view erotic behavior".
If the question had been posed using the word "sexual" there might be different responses.
The debate reveals the fact that even nudists are still shamed by sex (again, speaking mostly of North America).
As I spend more time in other countries, like here in Peru, I find that the indigenous cultures do not share this kind of "taboo" and children routinely see other people having sex and they are hardly scarred by it. (Cue the patriots who will say that's why these cultures were dominated by Westerners, despite there being any evidence of that as a factor.)
Having said that, these cultures also do not objectify women (or either sex) the way that ashamed Western cultures do, so they don't have things like pole dancing, strippers, or even pornography (in the traditional sense). Which says something -- taking the "eroticism" out of the equation results in a REDUCTION of such things.
I'm still a realist,though, and as an American I still recognize the current culture, moral codes, etc, so I am not advocating taking our nudist children to the swinger's clubs. There are biological and psychological facts that are universal in all cultures, regarding sexual and emotional maturity. The problem is that Westerners think their moral codes *ARE* universal truths, and until you travel a bit, you don't realize how completely opposite that is from reality.
But, yes, I close the door during sex. LOL. I just don't hide my children from the facts of what is going on behind the door, or shame them about it.
Anything that can be done, can be done better while nude. |
| Modern Nudist Mom |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 01:13:57 AM
My point is that a nudist mom may as well construct ‘a penis phobia’ in her young daughter’s mind by exhibiting direct disapproving response in frontage of natural erection by such hostile act as I have witness a few times. It is clearly in the context of what I have said that I never have laid such phobia upon lesbian girls in the general sense. There are many psychological elements and factors in constituting sexual orientations, and sometimes the sexual identity is encouraged by fear, strong worries or disappoints of the opposite sex. I cannot see that I am alone in such understanding and view, but I do know that many homosexual humans prefer to empathize homosexuality as being a part of 'a complete race' unto itself. That is, for sure, just erroneous - a simple mind construct.
I have never said that lack of education makes a person homosexual. All this is just exaggerating of my point into extremities that simply do not reflect clear comprehension of what I am saying in the actual and concrete context. No, I have no phobia of penis, even homosexual persons. How are you able to jump such conclusions?
quote:
Originally posted by naken
Modern nudist mom,i understand what you are saying it seems well writtin,but when you state that lack of education leads to phobia an lezbeism etc etc if this were true the entire world would screwed up,not just a social minority.I am not gay,i have gay friends it is there decision how they feel about themselves,an how they decide to live there lives.If what you say is fact an lack of education is the cause of this different social behavior then it seems you may be the only one that believes this.Go ahead ask gay people why there gay,i have never heard the lack of proper sex education or body fuctions as the cause. If this were true the simply educating them would return them to a preset standard of normality.You assume a great deal of things concerning child development an reactions to there learning ,matureing times that just does not prove out for the majority.I think it is nice that you are upfront with your girls,i also suspect that the fear an phobia are your own. I am ok with your thinking,i think different,There is no mention of your husband,in your girls relationship or his opinion .There is so much more to a man than bone up or bone down. A loving family relationship does not revolve around erotic behavior,seeing it or not seeing it.Life an love are so much more than erotic.I would like to sit an talk with you ,to reach some common ground of understanding,i really care about you an i dont even know you,that comes from my heart an soul not my childhood.Best wishes to you an the girls. Naken
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| naken |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 11:03:45 PM
Modern nudist mom,i understand what you are saying it seems well writtin,but when you state that lack of education leads to phobia an lezbeism etc etc if this were true the entire world would screwed up,not just a social minority.I am not gay,i have gay friends it is there decision how they feel about themselves,an how they decide to live there lives.If what you say is fact an lack of education is the cause of this different social behavior then it seems you may be the only one that believes this.Go ahead ask gay people why there gay,i have never heard the lack of proper sex education or body fuctions as the cause. If this were true the simply educating them would return them to a preset standard of normality.You assume a great deal of things concerning child development an reactions to there learning ,matureing times that just does not prove out for the majority.I think it is nice that you are upfront with your girls,i also suspect that the fear an phobia are your own. I am ok with your thinking,i think different,There is no mention of your husband,in your girls relationship or his opinion .There is so much more to a man than bone up or bone down. A loving family relationship does not revolve around erotic behavior,seeing it or not seeing it.Life an love are so much more than erotic.I would like to sit an talk with you ,to reach some common ground of understanding,i really care about you an i dont even know you,that comes from my heart an soul not my childhood.Best wishes to you an the girls. Naken |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 05:27:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by VLM34
quote:
Originally posted by Warmskin
If I were a five year old, I would want to go to a nudist resort to have five-year-old fun. What's fun for a five year old? Maybe playing games, splashing in a pool, coloring books, being on a swing, going down a slide, and the like.
But you aren't a five-year-old. You're an adult who is just guessing about what you'd want to do. And what you'd want to do isn't necessarily what other five-year-olds would want to do. In addition, school and church and baths and bedtime and a whole lot of other activities are unlikely to be on the to-do list of a five-year-old. What's your point?
quote:
I don't think seeing sexual activitiy would be on my to-do list ...
Are you telling us that five-year-olds should never see or do anything they don't want to see or do?
VLM34, there is an overabundance of criticism. It's the easiest thing to criticize someone. It's even easier to criticize if one is has a proclivity for doing so. I sometimes do, myself, but usually it's when I have something profound to say. I don't like to criticize; I'd rather say something witty, or convivial.
Here is a quote from Teddy Roosevelt:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better."
"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." (1891)
"All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree."
James Madison |
| Modern Nudist Mom |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 08:26:47 AM
I have told my two daughters that men sometimes get a stiff and long penis by almost nothing when they see something they like, or if the penis just wants to air itself, or even if the man is afraid to get an erection. They have been taught not to fear this response in boys and men, but not to get involved in something they are uncertain of or do not like. I am not one of those nudist moms who get outraged and take daughters away in a frenzy. I have seen mothers do this, and I am thinking about the impression those girls (or boys) get in their head about natural and innocent erection. This could actually devastate a juvenile girl’s future sexual life by phobia of penis, and turn her into a lesbian or asexually person long before she gets sexual. Therefore, I have been more wisely in my handling of this ‘problem’ in telling my daughter at early point about the truth of how men function with their penis. I actually feel sorry for nudist men who have to hide away. When I notice erection on a single man close by, I smile and ask him that he has difficulty in keeping it down today, and let him in on that I am not offended and not to worry. Often it turns out that the erection quickly drops during the chat, and when I feel safe, I ask him to come over and even join us. Every man can get non-sexual erection even if it feels good, but in that situation I do not think most men enjoy it, but experience their neightmare of losing control, and then he offer penis much emotional attention and the energy builds up, and then you have the unwanted result. Often younger nudist men are so afraid to lose control in front of little girls for the reason that everyone then would think of him as pedophile, and then you have it again. This is how one man explained to me of how this worked, and after learning this fact, I did not condemned causal erections whenever, but felt sorry for men who did not have courage to visit nudist beach because of this. I accepted to distinguishing the difference between showing off, and unwanted erection. By this realization dawned the conclusion that I had better inform my girls about it, and they have never responded negatively to erection, if ever noticed when that young. Now this has changed, of course, but with their background they too distinguish the difference, and do not get excited about something that is only natural, as it should be. Erection is a thing that just happens. The girls are more mature about this than most adult women who do not have such background in understanding, even though those women become nudists as adult.
There is nothing wrong to be somewhat erotic in front of the kids. There are big step between having sex, and be loving and nice to each other. If the kids do not tackle this, then they have already been programmed by our textile society. This programming could even come from the nudist parents themselves, because a child easily takes up unconscious signals and subtitle patterns in behavior. If the parents think sex is somewhat unclean, ergo immoral and wrong somehow, the kids will take that attitude into themselves one way or other. Only then erotic signals and sex get ‘dangerous’ to the mind. It is like prophecy fulfilling itself. Someone has to break this recurring chain of irrationality, and that are left to the modern parents who realize that Victorian values do not make it at all, save a contradictory consequence.
So parents, be loving to each other, and if your kids seems to react negatively to this type of kindness, then be real parents and take responsibility in unearthing why the kid in point of fact seems to response more confidently to media violence than real love and affection. Actually, it is the parent’s obligation to make sure that this situation is to the contrary. Being somewhat erotic would be a good and creative opportunity to interpret the child's response and what it has to learn before accepting tenderness and devotion between other people. Is not this the very WHY we are all natural in the first place? Or are not naturalists that natural and unpretentious as they consider themselves to be? To my experience, no, most of them are not. |
| tgg |
Posted - 09/24/2009 : 09:46:19 AM
I think it comes down to a cultural thing really. In some cultures and societies parents do couple in the presence of their children, and the children are not mentally or emotionally harmed by it. There is an article by Bill Paris on the Net called "The Cult Of Childhood Repression" in which he talks about the issues surrounding by making sex off-limits for children. However, he is adamant that he does not condone adult-child relationships.
Children are susceptible by both family and cultural attitudes to nudity and sex alike, so if sex is considered a 'taboo' thing for them to think and talk about when they're young they will likely adopt that attitude.
'Fear wraps our bodies in clothing, love allows us to stand naked' - Neale Donald Walsch (Conversations With God 1) |
| GeeWilly |
Posted - 08/21/2009 : 11:56:23 AM
VLM, I'd suggest you hire a research associate if you feel a need to cite studies that support your contentions. But then we've yet to see you contend anything? How easy it is to just tear into the valid opinions of others.
It seems you hold a secret, personal definition of the word, "erotic." Maybe stems from a defensive need to preserve you own private balance? Or you're like Forrest Gump: Erotic is as erotic does! No matter.
The issue in this discussion board concerns the effect that witnessing nude, erotic behavior might have on children. The question, VLM, of what might be erotic is wholly irrelevant! That the behavior in question here is erotic and occurs while the participants are nude is a premise of the discussion. So we need not delve into what "nude" means either.
Defining what is meant by "children" is clearly necessary. I submit that "children" for purposes of this topic should be old enough to have a capacity for sexual feelings or desires to be aroused, yet immature enough that their quality of judgment is, at least, inconsistently able to rationally deal with that arousal. (Yeah, could define a thirty-something? Oops, arguing from the exception . . . sorry.)
Yes, VLM, I agree; there are times when I am annoyed that others would tell me how I should behave. Doesn't matter whether they are right, does it? Too often we seek justice just for us. |
| VLM34 |
Posted - 08/14/2009 : 5:47:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rkitek
I did this time. First time I nodded off half way through.
You're funny.
quote:
So you're posting from France, but you're not from France.
Yeah. Born in Iowa, spent most of my life on the west coast. I married a Frenchwoman ever so long ago. Now that we're both retired, she gets her four months a year in France. I kinda like her, so I tag along. She kinda likes me, or so she says, so she serves as Native Guide. The rest of the year, we're either home in Portland or RVing around the warmer half of the USA.
On boards like this one, I have the advantage of having spent a lot of time at beaches and resorts in a dozen countries, and of having a perspective on the USA that most Americans lack. We could learn a lot from others, but we don't want to.
The whole world isn't like Peoria, nor is the whole USA. |
| rkitek |
Posted - 08/14/2009 : 4:57:14 PM
I did this time. First time I nodded off half way through. So you're posting from France, but you're not from France. In the words of the great thinker Radar O'Riley..."ahhh Bach". |
| VLM34 |
Posted - 08/14/2009 : 3:30:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rkitek
quote:
I'm not "from France," although I often post from that country. Next week I'll be in Spain, but anything I post from there won't make me "from Spain." After that, England, but just for a day or two. You should try reading profiles. Mine is quite detailed.
I not sure why anyone would think you're from France. Your profile list your location as "Villeneuve Lès Maguelone, Hérault (34)France". I never once thought France was France. I guess people need to pay closer attention.
Did you read the rest of it? |
| rkitek |
Posted - 08/14/2009 : 2:22:55 PM
quote:
I'm not "from France," although I often post from that country. Next week I'll be in Spain, but anything I post from there won't make me "from Spain." After that, England, but just for a day or two. You should try reading profiles. Mine is quite detailed.
I not sure why anyone would think you're from France. Your profile list your location as "Villeneuve Lès Maguelone, Hérault (34)France". I never once thought France was France. I guess people need to pay closer attention. |
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