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Massai
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/29/2005 : 10:24:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramadawn
So the glove is still down and I await an opponent who can actually provide a challenging debate. Any takers?
There are no good counter arguments. There is simply no logical reason why things shouldn't be the way you mentioned.
You may be putting a lot of effort in your position but the responses you receive will not be as thorough (I tried too in the past).
For example, the response you got about "space" (from Fireprof)did not have enough qualifiers...
-did not mention why "their" space is more important than "your" space,
-did not provide arguments to show why they think it is you and not "them" who overstep on other people's liberty, and,
-why do they feel invaded in the first place ? that is... why do they feel the muscles of their mind are so weak that a mere vision of a healthy male organ will cause mental devastation.
Overall, it feels as if erectile disfunction is considered ok, but male health needs to be covered with a towel...
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/29/2005 : 10:26:03 AM
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It's your "right" to sneeze in someone's face, but it's not polite to do it. It's your "right" to go to the bathroom, but it's not polite to do it in the street. It's your "right" to make love to your partner, but it's not polite or even legal to do it in public.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Massai
Forum Member
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 Posted - 07/29/2005 : 10:35:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheri
It's your "right" to sneeze in someone's face, but it's not polite to do it.
Cheri, the sneeze thing has been explored before:
http://www.nudist-resorts.org/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=489&whichpage=1
please try to build your argument from here (otherwise we would be starting from scratch and going in circles):
quote:
....
To rephrase the example above in plain speak...
-A sneeze is like spitting germs in my face.
-Passing gas, is like forcing excreted methane up my wind-pipe.
-Puffing a cigarette right next to me is like forcing polution down my lungs.
There is physical polution in regards to the above and that's what makes them impolite...
-But an erection ? It is merely an alternate shape of a muscle, a *visual* effect. Are we offended by an athlete flexing their biceps?
Is it a matter of politeness, or is it *realy* a matter of weeding out one more *taboo* from our past.
Why is erection considered like a "sneeze" in the first place?
Who came up with this corrolation and what arguments did they use for making a logical link between impoliteness and a passive errection ? How are these two related ?
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Edited by - Massai on 07/29/2005 2:00:26 PM |
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/29/2005 : 4:31:28 PM
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Both are normal and natural but not something to do in someone's face; that's the comparison; that's what I said. Please, please read what I wrote. Let's just drop the subject. It's a VERY dead horse.
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Edited by - Cheri on 07/29/2005 4:33:22 PM |
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balataf
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/29/2005 : 5:36:07 PM
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I think this overly-repetituive debate has its roots in the different instinctual programming of Males and Females. I have generally observed Women's reactions to observed erections as ranging from amusement to annoyance and irritation, unless she was in a sexual mood.
In contrast, Women's genital engorgement is more subtle and hidden, but viewing that, or erect nipples, is programmed to be highly enjoyable to the Guys, in an involuntary manner.
John Froelich
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Massai
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/29/2005 : 5:47:25 PM
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quote:
Both are normal and natural but not something to do in someone's face; that's the comparison; that's I said. Please, please read what I wrote. Let's just drop the subject. It's a VERY dead horse
People,
I am not here to change your minds (if thats what you think) I honestly wanted to find out what are the true reasons behind this etiquete, and the logical integrity behind them... but to do this I needed to probe how deep is the philosophical basis of your beliefs in this matter. I have to ask questions and then I have to test the integrity of your answers by approaching the subject from various perspectives.
However, I am not going to do all the work for you... both asking the questions, checking the answers, coming up with alternate viewpoints, even at some point providing favorable arguments for your case on your behalf, as well as provide devil's advocate stands on both sides... and so on... only to be shortchanged with unsubstantiated boilerplate single sentence answers.
We can go back and quantify how much philosophical work I have put in this topic and compare it with the answers.... who is not paying attention ?
The bottom line is, after all this shifting and probing... that there is no depth or logical reason behind this etiquete.
This finding is unsettling. You cannot build a nudist movement (any movement) without a solid philosophical basis. If you cannot follow with this kind of legalese-sounding methodical language (as many complained) or the argumentative depth, then I can't imagine how you would handle convincing arguments to politicians, lawyers, and governements.
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Edited by - Massai on 08/03/2005 01:06:27 AM |
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Banned080105
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/30/2005 : 12:45:28 AM
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The point of the sneeze is different because you CAN control where you sneeze. Furthermore the reasons one does not sneeze in someone's face or go to the bathroom out side of bathrooms is because such actions constitute a health risk for the general public. Sneezing in someone’s face allows for the transmission of disease as does exposed human waste material.
This issue with erections is different. One, Unlike where you sneeze or where you go to the bathroom, a male cannot control where he has an erection. Two, erections are passive and do not constitute a health risk for anyone. Were we standing on a beach in pitch darkness and I had an erection, by what means would you be harmed? In fact breathing in someone's vicinity, an action that is not condemned in public, provides more vectors of disease than erections. Nothing bad is going the happen because a woman views a man's erection. It is simply body adornment, a state of being.
Ask yourself this, society is offended by the sight of female body hair, other than on the head. Do you believe that this offense at the sight of natural female body hair is right? Does that mean that women should be forced to remove all their hair. Does that mean that women who chose to have their body hair and not shave every inch of skin are invading other people’s space. My wife often chooses not shave her legs when we are on the beach. And you know what, I am glad she doesn’t because society’s obsessions with hair free women is stupid and immature. Give me a natural woman any day.!
Thus thinking about the above example you can see how illogical being offended at the sight of a man’s erection is. Your willing to see his penis but only so long as you can control it’s state of being. At sate that is not yours to control, but is a natural part of human male physiology.
I greatly dislike these demands for us to be silent on the issue. If you do not want to argue, stop posting on or reading this thread. No one is forcing you to debate the issue with us.
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Edited by - Banned080105 on 07/30/2005 12:48:22 AM |
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/30/2005 : 08:57:34 AM
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You said yourself you turn your head when you sneeze; most cover their nose with a tissue or hankerchief. Those who are very long-time male nudists on this board have stated that it's no big deal to cover, lay down, etc. until the erection subsides. As I posted on the other erection thread, nudist beaches have been closed for overt sexuality. Nudism's reputation has to remain g-rated to maintain what little headway we've come into Community Standards.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Edited by - Cheri on 07/30/2005 12:09:33 PM |
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chic
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/30/2005 : 12:53:06 PM
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Righr on Cheri.
This is the main reason Kim left this forum, that is, the type of posts by these two who persist on attacking those of us who prefer to respect the modest point of view on this subject.
Chic
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Banned080105
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/30/2005 : 3:15:32 PM
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It is like debating a record. If this Kim is leaving an entire forum because ,surprise surprise, people are having a debate. What else would you do on a forum? Then she is the one with problems not us. In fact leaving an entire forum because people are debating a topic that you don't like on a thread is sign of significant immaturity.
We must keep beaches Nude G-rated? Their nudist beaches!, if you haven’t checked censorship laws for the US, nudity is not G rated in any form of media.
Chic, your argument is another pointless attack.
PLEASE GROW UP CHIC. THIS IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE DEBATE! stop with the idiotic personal attacks endless repeats. Because ,Honestly I am beginning to wonder if your a sentient human being or a mindless machines persistently reaping the same thing over and over again because your five neurons can't consider outside information.
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/30/2005 : 5:08:47 PM
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EVERYONE's nude beaches!!! Higbee in New Jersey closed a few years back because of open sexuality!!
We need to remain vigilant so that nudism's reputation is not tarnished.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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curious1
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/30/2005 : 5:26:35 PM
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I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't have that happen to me when I was out today. It was simply something that never came close to occurring. I'm sure in future visits, I'll have something happen, but I think there is much ado about nothing in this endless argument.
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chic
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/31/2005 : 08:02:40 AM
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Ramadawn,
Again, your entitled to your opinion, but see, like some others in the past, you make your agrument persomal, thus weakening your position.
My last word on this subject.
Chic
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Edited by - chic on 07/31/2005 2:31:21 PM |
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bornnude
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/31/2005 : 08:40:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramadawn
It is like debating a record. If this Kim is leaving an entire forum because ,surprise surprise, people are having a debate. What else would you do on a forum? Then she is the one with problems not us. In fact leaving an entire forum because people are debating a topic that you don't like on a thread is sign of significant immaturity.
We must keep beaches Nude G-rated? Their nudist beaches!, if you haven’t checked censorship laws for the US, nudity is not G rated in any form of media.
Chic, your argument is another pointless attack.
PLEASE GROW UP CHIC. THIS IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE DEBATE! stop with the idiotic personal attacks endless repeats. Because ,Honestly I am beginning to wonder if your a sentient human being or a mindless machines persistently reaping the same thing over and over again because your five neurons can't consider outside information.
The difference between debating and arguing is that in a debate, rules are set down and common curteousy is observed. Your last paragraph violates common curteousy so please back off.
People differ in their views. True, censorship laws in the US do not readily approve of nudity as "G" (general audiences, and I would suggest that a "G" rating is not appropriate. A "PG" (parental guidance) is. "PG" especially these days, does not show the sexual inappropriateness that you are advocating.
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 07/31/2005 : 3:11:46 PM
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Ramadawn has been banned for verbal abuse, after ignoring a courtesy notice he received from me yesterday.
You can debate unwanted erections until the cows come home, but destroy our forum camaraderie and you're outta here.
Kevin
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