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nurserobin
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 Posted - 06/01/2006 : 9:07:18 PM
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Since when is having an erection in public a federally backed right of living in the US? The odd man out that has erections due to a medical condition, as I said, can bring documentation from his physician - otherwise, everyone and their brother will all of a sudden have "medically related" erections all the time. And nobody kicks anybody out for the random erection as I believe you've also read previously - but for having erections AND flaunting them, playing with them, encouraging them etc and having them repeatedly without an attendant "medical condition" and without being discreet about it.
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Edited by - nurserobin on 06/01/2006 9:09:51 PM |
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/01/2006 : 10:05:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nurserobin
Since when is having an erection in public a federally backed right of living in the US? The odd man out that has erections due to a medical condition, as I said, can bring documentation from his physician - otherwise, everyone and their brother will all of a sudden have “medically related” erections all the time. And nobody kicks anybody out for the random erection as I believe you’ve also read previously - but for having erections AND flaunting them, playing with them, encouraging them etc and having them repeatedly without an attendant “medical condition” and without being discreet about it.
I never said that having an erection in public is a “federally backed right.” IF however he had a medical condition that produced said erection THAT would be “federally backed” as business are NOT allowed to discriminate when there is a medical condition involved. And as a matter of fact most communities have their “indecent exposure” laws written so that even IF a man is dressed, and in a “turgid” state that he is “guilty” of being “indecently exposed.” You as a nurse you should know that there are many medical conditions as well as medication, and medication/food combinations that can produce an erection, as well as certain injuries.
And given that in the US that the burden of proof is on the ACCUSER and NOT the accused to prove their case WHY should the accused have to prove anything?
Uh, IF I am NOT mistaken Cheri has responded to a young lady who had said that she was at a dance at a nudist venue over in Europe. And during the course of their dancing her partner experienced an erection. Cheri told her that IF that had happened here That her date/escort/dance partner would have been shown the door. As that would have been (in her words) “unacceptable behavior.”
Also Cheri is the one who is always saying that a man who is napping and gets a sleep induced erection that someone “needs” to wake him up so that he can either turn over, or cover himself up. Suggesting that simply having an erection is some sort of “offense” in and of itself. I mean how is a man who is sound asleep and is experiencing a sleep induced erection “flaunting it” or otherwise “encouraging” said condition?
Herman
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Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 06/01/2006 10:15:39 PM |
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nurserobin
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/01/2006 : 10:51:55 PM
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I'm now wondering about what the point is of this argument... do you actually think that you will win "erection freedom" and have any and all erections accepted at nudist venues when and wherever they occur? Would the clubs not be emptied fairly quickly when the perverts take over as they would have nothing to stop them as the burden would be on the clubs to prove that each erection is not caused by a medical condition? And the fact that I, as a nurse, should know about all of the men afflicted with conditions causing uncontrollable erections or iatrogenically induced erections, is baseless as I, as a nurse, have not come across any such condition in the 13 years I've spent in this field - so I guess it's not THAT common...and in my experience, I, as a nurse, have found that MOST of the erectile issues have to do with NOT being able to attain one...
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stewincanada
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 01:45:37 AM
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quote:
IF social nudism ISN'T about sex/sexuality then why is so much attention being paid to men's pubic regions?
Herman
Herman - It would appear to me that in this thread and at least three others you are the one that is paying most attention to this. I think that out there in the real world, beyond the computer keyboard that this is almost a non-event, and I am curious as to why you seem so obssessed with it.
I have been a nudist for more than 20 years, and I visit beaches and clubs on a very regular basis. I can honestly say that in that time I have probably only noticed someone with an erection on a handful of occasions. In all cases the guy was quick to cover up.
Stewart 
Cheap Airfares for nudists ( and others )
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 02:42:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nurserobin
I’m now wondering about what the point is of this argument... do you actually think that you will win “erection freedom” and have any and all erections accepted at nudist venues when and wherever they occur? Would the clubs not be emptied fairly quickly when the perverts take over as they would have nothing to stop them as the burden would be on the clubs to prove that each erection is not caused by a medical condition? And the fact that I, as a nurse, should know about all of the men afflicted with conditions causing uncontrollable erections or iatrogenically induced erections, is baseless as I, as a nurse, have not come across any such condition in the 13 years I’ve spent in this field - so I guess it’s not THAT common...and in my experience, I, as a nurse, have found that MOST of the erectile issues have to do with NOT being able to attain one...
I am not trying to “win erectile freedom” as I have said several times already IF a man is sitting or laying by the pool/beach or is chasing people around and is masturbating then yes, that man needs to have the rules explained to him, as he is being shown the door.
IF however he just has an erection and isn’t doing anything to either conceal it, or cover it up, or otherwise try to “hide it.” And the club is accusing him of doing something wrong, then THEY (the club) are the one’s who need to prove that he is misbehaving. As won’t the club’s likewise be “emptied fairly quickly” if they go around accusing men of wrong doing for simply having an erection and not doing anything about it? Such as the case of a man dancing with a woman and gets an erection? What is he suppose to do? Stop dancing and go and “hide?” Because he had/has an erection while dancing?
And what the clubs and resorts don’t have to hold themselves to the same standard as the courts? Yes, the burden of proof is on them, because they are the ONES who are making the accusation that the man with an erection is doing something “wrong.” And the man with an erection does NOT have to prove anything.
That is NOT what I said, and you bloody well know it. I said that YOU as a nurse should know that there could very well be a medical reason WHY a man is having an erection, and you should also know that it is not always because of sexual reasons.
I suppose that if in your 13 years as a nurse that IF you never encountered a male patient who had ITP (Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura), and Raynaud’s Syndrome, and doesn’t have Lupus that he’s making the whole thing up? Well just to let you know I am such a male. I was first diagnosed with Raynaud’s Syndrome when I was stationed out at Ft. Riley, Ks. then later that same year I was diagnosed with ITP.
The Army in it’s “infinite” wisdom never bothered to test me for Lupus, but when I had my disability physical at the VA hospital in Tampa, Fl. One of the doctors there got smart and tested me for Lupus. Using both the RNA and DNA tests. One came back positive, and one came back negative. I can’t remember which one was which right now. And as I hope I don’t need to explain to you, thanks the ITP, I am a “bleeder” and IF got cut, scratched, or bruised that it is possible for me to bleed to death. Likewise IF I am exposed to the cold for too long, or am placed under an undo amount of stress I could “in theory” end up losing the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th digits on my right hand. But I guess because it is an “uncommon” condition in men, that I’m making the whole thing up, huh?
So given that I have a disability (the VA has me rated at 70% disabled) that is normally found in childbearing aged women doesn’t make it any less real. And given t
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 02:57:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by stewincanada
quote:
IF social nudism ISN'T about sex/sexuality then why is so much attention being paid to men's pubic regions?
Herman
Herman - It would appear to me that in this thread and at least three others you are the one that is paying most attention to this. I think that out there in the real world, beyond the computer keyboard that this is almost a non-event, and I am curious as to why you seem so obssessed with it.
I have been a nudist for more than 20 years, and I visit beaches and clubs on a very regular basis. I can honestly say that in that time I have probably only noticed someone with an erection on a handful of occasions. In all cases the guy was quick to cover up.
Stewart
Cheap Airfares for nudists ( and others )
Stew,
The problem that I have is that apparently if a man has an erection and hasn’t done anything about it, that he is assumed be to be “flaunting” it, or doing something wrong. And that he has to stop what he is doing and cover it up, or hide it in some way.
Even IF it’s an innocent erection because he was dancing with a young lady, because according to Cheri the dance partner of a women who had posted in another thread about how while dancing with her, her partner got an erection. And according to Cheri he would/should have been told to leave because he got an erection while on the dance floor.
Why is it “wrong” for a man who is dancing a slow dance with a woman (or even with another man) to get an erection? And why should he be escorted out of the club/resort, and/or banned from said club, or resort? As Cheri has suggested should happen to him?
And just how is he suppose to leave the dance floor IN the middle of the dance floor without calling undo attention to himself or his condition?
Herman
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nurserobin
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 07:13:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
I, as a nurse, have found that MOST of the erectile issues have to do with NOT being able to attain one...
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That is NOT what I said, and you bloody well know it. I said that YOU as a nurse should know that there could very well be a medical reason WHY a man is having an erection, and you should also know that it is not always because of sexual reasons.
Herman
[/quote]
Please reread what I left in of my post - I even capitalized the word MOST - nowhere did I, as a nurse, deny the existence of those disorders, merely commented on the RARITY of same. As to the rest of your post - since you've already said it all about 5 times now and the subject is not really interesting anymore I'm done discussing it. Please reread Stewincanadas post as relevant here...
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Edited by - nurserobin on 06/02/2006 07:14:20 AM |
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GeeWilly
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 1:14:59 PM
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Sorry, Cowboy, that the Army missed their diagnosis and that it delayed your disability determination or your welfare check. Do you think the Army was responsible for your ITP and/or your Raynaud's Syndrome? Particularly when they are looking at your RNA and DNA? Sorry as well that you are maybe one in 500,000 who are so afflicted.
In the study of Logic, among the informal fallacies of relevance, one finds "converse accident". In trying to understand all cases of a certain kind, one can usually pay attention to only some of them. But those examined should be typical rather than atypical. If one considers only exceptional cases and hastily generalizes to a rule that fits them alone, the fallacy committed is that of "converse accident".
It's like observing that opiates administered by a physician alleviate the pain of seriously ill patients and arguing that, therefore, narcotics should be available to everyone. That just is not correct, Cowboy. Nor should medical conditions causing penile erections be the basis for permitting everyone having such to parade about with impunity. Otherwise,wouldn't that be arguing from the exception, Cowboy?
The beauty of America includes private property and the rights inherent therein. a private entity like, say, a nudist club or resort can make their own rules and legally enforce them!
Cowboy, when you start alluding to "standards" and "burdens of proof," you may be confusing what controls government and what applies to the people. Now, granted, there are equal employment opportunity laws that protect specified classes of persons from discrimination by employers of a minimum size. Similarly, civil rights laws protect certain classes of persons from discrimination in public places.
But now, Cowboy, we are talking about a private nudist resort or club, not public, and we are dealing with special classifications of people. With regard to medical discrimination, other than pregnancy, I think you'd have to rely on the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Do you think an erectile dysfunction of the nature you have described is protected?
I don't either.
Cowboy, the presumptions of law that you commonly bandy about do not mean that an accused is innocent of (has not committed) a crime or that a civil defendant is free from misfeasance. They merely establish who has the burden of proving such. It is a procedural matter, nothing more.
Finally, with respect to your "should a man dancing (at a nudist resort) who becomes erect go and hide" question. The answer --in the U.S.-- is essentially, yes. He should discreetly excuse himself and sit down or otherwise cover the erection until it subsides. It just is not open for discussion in the real, practical world you live in. Sorry, Cowboy.
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Edited by - GeeWilly on 06/02/2006 1:20:51 PM |
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CMx2
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 1:29:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
I am not trying to “win erectile freedom” as I have said several times already IF a man is sitting or laying by the pool/beach or is chasing people around and is masturbating then yes, that man needs to have the rules explained to him, as he is being shown the door.
Here we go with more bull.
In this situation which you described, the man doesn't need to be "shown the door". He needs to be arrested.
But ignoring that fact, everyone here, You included is aware that a male does not need to be actively masturbating to be sexually aroused.
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 1:46:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nurserobin
quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
I, as a nurse, have found that MOST of the erectile issues have to do with NOT being able to attain one...
That is NOT what I said, and you bloody well know it. I said that YOU as a nurse should know that there could very well be a medical reason WHY a man is having an erection, and you should also know that it is not always because of sexual reasons.
Herman
Please reread what I left in of my post - I even capitalized the word MOST - nowhere did I, as a nurse, deny the existence of those disorders, merely commented on the RARITY of same. As to the rest of your post - since you've already said it all about 5 times now and the subject is not really interesting anymore I'm done discussing it. Please reread Stewincanadas post as relevant here...
This is what you said, when you “left” in what you’d said you conveniently left out part of what you had said:
quote:
And the fact that I, as a nurse, should know about all of the men afflicted with conditions causing uncontrollable erections or iatrogenically induced erections, is baseless as I, as a nurse, have not come across any such condition in the 13 years I've spent in this field
Indicating that you were trying to say that I was trying to say that you should know about the conditions of all men.
Herman
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 2:35:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeWilly
Sorry, Cowboy, that the Army missed their diagnosis and that it delayed your disability determination or your welfare check. Do you think the Army was responsible for your ITP and/or your Raynaud’s Syndrome? Particularly when they are looking at your RNA and DNA? Sorry as well that you are maybe one in 500,000 who are so afflicted.
Willy, the Army is “responsible” for them in as much as they were diagnosed while I was on Active Duty, which makes them Service Connected Disabilities. Nor am I on welfare, or any other form of public assistance other then getting a disability check from the VA. And even though I would probably qualify for them, I would rather see a single parent get those benefits so as to support their children.
And so far “knock on wood” I am able to support myself on my VA disability compensation.
quote:
In the study of Logic, among the informal fallacies of relevance, one finds “converse accident”. In trying to understand all cases of a certain kind, one can usually pay attention to only some of them. But those examined should be typical rather than atypical. If one considers only exceptional cases and hastily generalizes to a rule that fits them alone, the fallacy committed is that of “converse accident”.
It’s like observing that opiates administered by a physician alleviate the pain of seriously ill patients and arguing that, therefore, narcotics should be available to everyone. That just is not correct, Cowboy. Nor should medical conditions causing penile erections be the basis for permitting everyone having such to parade about with impunity. Otherwise, wouldn’t that be arguing from the exception, Cowboy?
That is not at all what I am saying.
quote:
The beauty of America includes private property and the rights inherent therein. a private entity like, say, a nudist club or resort can make their own rules and legally enforce them!
True but when they start to do business with the public even a limited segment of the public there are certain guidelines that they have to follow, or they can and will end up being sued.
quote:
Cowboy, when you start alluding to “standards” and “burdens of proof,” you may be confusing what controls government and what applies to the people. Now, granted, there are equal employment opportunity laws that protect specified classes of persons from discrimination by employers of a minimum size. Similarly, civil rights laws protect certain classes of persons from discrimination in public places.
And I am sure you have seen the news stories on various PRIVATE clubs that were men’s only clubs that were sued to allow women to join. And what about the female reporters who sued to have access to the men’s locker rooms after a sporting event? Is not a sports center/arena like say Yankees Stadium private property? Yet, because female reporters sued for equal access to athletes after a game they now are allowed into the locker room, are they not?
quote:
But now, Cowboy, we are talking about a private n
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 4:40:19 PM
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Hasn't the Masters Golf Club remained male only? Nudist parks and clubs are private where as schools especially government subsidized schools are public as are any venue that is open to the general public. Nudist parks and clubs are PRIVATE, they are not open to the general public.
There are at least 2 nudist parks of which I am aware that will not allow those with external colostomy bags into their pools or hot tubs. Other parks will not let diabetics into their pools with swim shoes.
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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GeeWilly
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 5:11:41 PM
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Ah Cowboy, I can sense nurserobin's frustration here.
The Augusta National Golf Club, where the Masters Golf Tournament is held every April, is men only. Under your reasoning how can that be? No woman in the state of Georgia has the, ah . . . , to sue to mandate a change?
Cowboy, each case has its own merits and the parties have their own reasons for settling.
By the way, just what is the authority you rely upon for stating that doing business with even a limited segment of the "public" requires one to "follow certain guidelines"? Anybody can sue anyone else in this country, Cowboy; but if there is no merit(legal basis) for doing so, the sanctions can be costly and the lawyer bringing the action can be barred from that court. Not a good choice.
Again, Cowboy, what is your legal authority for saying that a private nudist club would have to grant membership to a person who had undergone a colostomy? Or an appendectomy? A lobotomy?
Just give me a citation to a case that holds as you claim. Easy money, huh?
Cowboy, you have restated what I said: as a procedural matter the burden of proof is on the party bringing the action or making the affirmative defense. So what?
Are you saying there is nothing wrong with walking around (a nudist venue) with an erection until a court issues a permanent injunction against the person doing so? How is it that the police can arrest and take someone into custody, and that substantial bond might be required to ensure appearance if nothing wrong has occurred?
When confronted with the clear conclusion that you are attempting to use a medical condition as a basis for parading around a nudist venue with an erection, you respond, "That is not at all what I am saying."
I think you have lost all the rest of us, Cowboy.
Either you are arguing from the exception or you are trying to use a legal prodedural rule as if it were substantive law. Either way your premise, whatever it may be, fails.
Please enlighten us.
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Edited by - GeeWilly on 06/02/2006 5:16:21 PM |
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GeeWilly
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 5:22:56 PM
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Excuse me, Cheri, I did not see your post before I was composing my response. Obviously I concur with your position with respect to the word Private.
I did not mean to engage in blatant redundancy by repeating your Augusta National example but it is certainly on point.
No offense meant.
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2006 : 7:17:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeWilly
Ah Cowboy, I can sense nurserobin’s frustration here.
The Augusta National Golf Club, where the Masters Golf Tournament is held every April, is men only. Under your reasoning how can that be? No woman in the state of Georgia has the, ah . . . , to sue to mandate a change?
Cowboy, each case has its own merits and the parties have their own reasons for settling.
By the way, just what is the authority you rely upon for stating that doing business with even a limited segment of the “public” requires one to “follow certain guidelines”? Anybody can sue anyone else in this country, Cowboy; but if there is no merit(legal basis) for doing so, the sanctions can be costly and the lawyer bringing the action can be barred from that court. Not a good choice.
Again, Cowboy, what is your legal authority for saying that a private nudist club would have to grant membership to a person who had undergone a colostomy? Or an appendectomy? A lobotomy?
Just give me a citation to a case that holds as you claim. Easy money, huh?
Cowboy, you have restated what I said: as a procedural matter the burden of proof is on the party bringing the action or making the affirmative defense. So what?
Are you saying there is nothing wrong with walking around (a nudist venue) with an erection until a court issues a permanent injunction against the person doing so? How is it that the police can arrest and take someone into custody, and that substantial bond might be required to ensure appearance if nothing wrong has occurred?
When confronted with the clear conclusion that you are attempting to use a medical condition as a basis for parading around a nudist venue with an erection, you respond, “That is not at all what I am saying.”
I think you have lost all the rest of us, Cowboy.
Either you are arguing from the exception or you are trying to use a legal prodedural rule as if it were substantive law. Either way your premise, whatever it may be, fails.
Please enlighten us.
The “problem” with using the Masters as an example of a club that is still an “all men’s” club is that there is a women’s equivalent, the WPGA.
And as I am sure you’ll recall a golfer successfully sued the PGA to be able to use a golf cart during the tournament, even though the rules said that all participants must walk from hole-to-hole. (http://tinyurl.com/nnm28) (http://tinyurl.com/ld2gq)
quote:
In the days after the Supreme Court ruled two weeks ago that he could use a cart in PGA Tour competition because of his withered right leg, Casey Martin has tried to move on with his life. But he is somewhat bothered by the lack of support from many of his colleagues.
Speaking today after practicing for this week’s Buy.com Greater Cleveland Open, his first tournament since the ruling, Martin said he had heard from some PGA pros, but not from Tiger Woods, his former roommate and teammate at Stanford.
Denying a person membership based solely on the grounds that he or she has a colostomy, or any other medical condition (regardless of how rare it may be) would be discrimination, and would be grounds for a lawsuit. As the above clearly shows, as I am sure that there were plenty of people who were saying at that time that IF he couldn’t participate in the tournament and abide by the rules, then he shouldn’t have been there in the first place. The above lawsuit clearly shows that a private club or organization can be “forced” into making concessions and allowances for people with medical conditions regardless of how rare, or u
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Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 06/02/2006 7:25:39 PM |
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