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Admin
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 Posted - 07/23/2002 : 5:49:00 PM
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Some would say Adam and Eve were natural nudists, until they met the first clothing salesman in the Garden of Eden. What do you think? Click Reply To Topic to post your comments.
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Cheri
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Posted - 07/24/2002 : 10:32:04 AM
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You'll probably find people of all denominations both pro and con nudist.
:) Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Cheri
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Posted - 08/04/2002 : 10:37:43 AM
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I came across these quotes and thought they were pertinent.
"Even as we stand apart as observers -- strangers in the cradle of our
genesis -- some part of us feels pulled back towards the place of our
first awakening . . . To be naked under the out-stretched bower of
expansive limbs reaching over us, or upon a meadow hillside where the
light breezes of summer brush past is to feel the world in a way that
we can't while clothed . . . By simply being more open and caring . .
we move the world inch by inch towards being a place more amenable to
and tolerant of the freedom to be naked both bodily and spiritually."
http://members.tripod.com/~nakedspirit/enchant.html
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"His disciples asked, 'When will you become revealed to us and when
shall we see you?' Jesus answered, 'When you disrobe without being
ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like
little children and tread on them, then will you see the son of the
Living One, and you will not be afraid.'" - The Gospel of Thomas
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nu_bibl.htm
"Nakedness itself is not immodest . . . Immodesty is present only when
nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person,when its aim is to arouse concupiscence, as a result of which the person is put in the position of an object for enjoyment." -
Pope John Paul II
"One of the great lies American Christians tell our men is to stay away from nudity in order to avoid sexual temptation. As a teenager I had no idea there was any other way to deal with lust other than avoidance, and the effects of that tactic still haunt me today. I developed a sort of detachment to life . . ."
Steve Lansingh, in Christianity Today
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/129/42.0.html
"And I saw there a naked man sitting, . . . I said to him, Wherefore art thou naked? He said, How knowest thou that I am naked? Thou wearest skins of the cattle of the earth, that decay together with thy body, but look up to the height of heaven and behold of what nature my clothing is. And looking up into heaven I saw his face as the face of an angel . . ." Narrative of Zosimus,
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~moorea/naked.html
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Cheri
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Posted - 08/12/2002 : 08:32:07 AM
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Here are some points regarding religion and nudity:
1. Genesis 1:27-The (naked) human body, created by God, in God's own image, is basically decent, not inherently impure or sinful. The human body was created by God, and God can create no evil. It is made in God's image, and the image of God is entirely pure and good.
2. Genesis 1:31-God saw that everything, including naked Adam and Eve, was good.
3. Genesis 3:7-Many scholars interpret the wearing of fig leaves as a continuation and expansion of the original sin, not a positive moral reaction to it.
Hugh Kilmer explains: "Man wanted to put his life within his own control rather than God's, so first he took the power of self-determination (knowledge of good and evil). Next, finding his body was not within his control, he controlled it artificially by hiding it. After he was expelled from paradise, he began to hunt and eat animals; then to gain complete control over other people, by killing them (the story of Cain and Abel)."
4. Genesis 3:10-Many scholars believe that Adam and Eve's sense of shame came not from their nakedness, which God had created and called good, but from their knowledge of having disobeyed God.
5. An innate, God-given sense of shame related to nakedness is contradicted by the existence of numerous indigenous societies in which nudity is the rule and a sense of shame is totally absent, and by the lack of shame felt by naked children.
6. Genesis 3:11-It was disobedience that came between Adam and Eve and God, not nakedness. The scriptures themselves treat Adam and Eve's nudity as an incidental issue.
Robert Bahr observes that "when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they grew ashamed of what they had done and attempted to hide themselves from God, who was not the least bit concerned with their nakedness but was mightily unhappy with their disobedience." Herb Seal notes that God provided a covering by slaying an innocent animal: the first prototype of the innocent one slain to act as a "covering" for sinners.
7. Genesis 3:21-God made garments of skins for Adam, but the Bible does not say the state of nakedness is being condemned. Because of the Fall, Adam and Eve were no longer in Eden and were thus subject to the varieties of weather and climate, and God knew they would need clothes. God loved and cared for them even after they had sinned.
8. To assume that because God made garments He was condemning nudity makes as much sense as concluding that because God made clouds which blot out the sun He was condemning sunshine.
9. Genesis 9:22-24-Noah was both drunk and naked, but Ham was the one who was cursed-when he dishonored his father, by calling attention to Noah's state, and making light of it.
The shame of Noah's "nakedness" was much more than just being undressed. It was his dehumanized, drunken stupor which was shameful. Ham's offense was not merely seeing his father in this shameful state, but gossiping about it, effectively destroying Noah's reputation, cultural status, and authority as a father figure. In the story, Shem and Japheth were blessed for coming to the defense of their father's honor. Rather than joining Ham in his boasting, they reverently covered their father's shame.
10. Exodus 20:26-The Priest's nakedness was not to be exposed because it would create dissonance between his social role, in which he was to be seen as sexually neutral, and his biological status as a sexual being. The Priest's costume represented his social role; to be exposed in that context would be inappropriate and distracting.
Rita Poretsky writes: "Personhood, original sexual energy, and physical nakedness may be either in synchrony with social institutions or in disharmony. . . . Nakedness is a nakedness of self in a social context, not just a nakedness of body." On the other hand, it was quite appropriate for David to dance essentially naked in public to celebrate the return of the Ark of the Covenant (II Samuel 6:14-23).
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usvera
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nudebynature
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Posted - 02/10/2004 : 11:55:02 PM
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Cheri, all of your points are well taken.
I would add the following to your extensive list. Genesis 3:8 says that God was walking in the Garden in the cool of the day. That means that Adam and Eve met with him face to face. God made sounds because Adam heard him coming. That means that God and Adam were indeed of the same image and physical entities. If Adam was naked, the chances were that God was naked also. If God was wearing clothes then surely nudity would have been an issue. That is just speculation, but it does mean that God regularly saw them naked and had no problem with it.
The Bible teaches (sorry New Testament) that we are to be discerning. Where there are no hard and fast rules, we are not prohibited from something. Instead we are to consult God and to use our judgement. If it does not lead us to sin and does not lead others astray then it is permitted. Even things that were previously prohibited under Mosaic law are permissible. Nudism clearly falls into this category since it is not expressly forbidden.
Clearly not everybody can handle it. This is an individual decision. Because one person can't handle something then that does not make it wrong for all.
Thanks for the excellent collection of points supporting nudism.
Linux: 100% Microsoft Free Computing
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SunMan
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Posted - 10/05/2005 : 12:04:49 AM
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I love my faith and my new perpose in life is to serve and do the things God wants me to do.
Nudism is kinda blurry in this area. I will agree that there is nothing sinnful about nudity and the bible does not condem it but it does not support it either. We are commanded to clothe the naked and not draw attention to ourselves but I also understand that the environment then is not the same now so the idea of clothing for protection from the elements is sort of lost. These are the things I consiter everyday.
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Bob S.
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Posted - 10/12/2005 : 9:20:58 PM
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"We are commanded to clothe the naked and not draw attention to ourselves"
SunMan, that phrase was meant to mean that we should take care of the poor and needy. If you see a homeless person in rags lying on the street, giving him the shirt off your back would be part of that commandment. So would giving him money for a meal. And when you are doing your moral duties in this regard, you should not be doing it for the attention but rather for the charity.
"there is nothing sinnful about nudity and the bible does not condem it but it does not support it either."
You are correct that the Bible never condemns normal nudity but it does support nudity in certain situations such as commanding prophets to go naked (I want to say Isaiah), open air bathing (which was natural for those times), the Creation, etc. It does not specifically support nudism because nudity was so common that nobody would think to want to ban all public nudity.
In fact, virtaully everything sinful is either actions/behaviour or thoughts. Clothing is bad if it is too showy or the wearer is more concerned with what they are wearing than how they are behaving. Nudity is just another form of dress in the Bible.
Bob S.
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GeeWilly
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Posted - 10/13/2005 : 12:15:08 PM
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While it's only been three years, Cheri, as much as I appreciate and wholly concur with the 25 Points of your 8/12/02 missive, I would violently disagree with your 8/04/02 cite from the "Gospel of Thomas". It is not now, nor has it ever been even close to being authoritative as a true "gospel". You could use something from The DaVinci Code or probably any of Robert Heinlan's fiction to the same effect. IMHO It reflects poorly on the validity of your message. (Better late than never?)
I suggest that nudebynature's conclusion that Nudism is permissible because is it not expressly forbidden under Mosaic law might be a good example of the "legalism" addressed by point 22. Does the Bible ever define "sexual immorality"?
Rather than give the homeless money, Bob S, give them your time and, maybe, a sandwich. Please read Under the Overpass by Mike Yankoski. It's a quick read and highly relevant to those who would follow Jesus' statement that whoever cares for the least of these, cares for me.
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Edited by - GeeWilly on 10/13/2005 12:17:10 PM |
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n/a
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Posted - 04/05/2008 : 8:50:47 PM
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I believe the original question was the"relation between religion and nudism". I can't speak for ALL religions, only Christianity. I have been a Chritian most of my life - Protestant - and, though have ALWAYS heard PREACHING against nudism, I have NEVER seen one scripture speaking of clothing protecting us from sin. As you, Cheri, brought out, Adam and Eve only clothed themselves to try hiding their SIN from God. (Are Christians trying to hide THEIR sin from God in the same way?) Although I am just "coming out of the closet" regarding nudity, that has ablolutely NOTHING to do with my "religion" or my life toward God.
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WyldspringNudist
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 02:09:19 AM
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And than there are those of us who not only include nudity in our religion, but have it built into it. I really can't speek for Christens but nudism is very much part of most formes of Paganism.
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catbird
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 3:34:03 PM
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Cheri,
I just now read your missive of 8/12/2002 about the 25 points of nudism and religion. I printed the missive, so that I can meditate on it and I also saved the file. You have an unrecognized talent (known to God). You ought to publish it as perhaps a page on your Travelites web site.
In case you deleted that writing a long time ago, I could send it to you as an email attachment.
Nudism and religion is a topic I can get carried away with. I could write something on the topic; however I don't have time today. I am a long time Christian, Protestant.
I have felt very close to God while in the nude. God created me nude.
Naturally, Catbird
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Cheri
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 5:21:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by catbird
Cheri,
I just now read your missive of 8/12/2002 about the 25 points of nudism and religion. I printed the missive, so that I can meditate on it and I also saved the file. You have an unrecognized talent (known to God). You ought to publish it as perhaps a page on your Travelites web site.
In case you deleted that writing a long time ago, I could send it to you as an email attachment.
Nudism and religion is a topic I can get carried away with. I could write something on the topic; however I don't have time today. I am a long time Christian, Protestant.
I have felt very close to God while in the nude. God created me nude.
Naturally, Catbird
Since they're not original (created by me) I won't repost them on my club's website. I believe some of them came from TNS's Resource section as part of a treatise by another.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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VLM34
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Posted - 06/21/2008 : 07:14:32 AM
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The relation between nudism and religion is exactly the same as the relation between nudism and stamp collecting. Let's keep it that way.
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FlCpl4NewdFun
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Posted - 06/21/2008 : 10:15:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by VLM34
The relation between nudism and religion is exactly the same as the relation between nudism and stamp collecting. Let's keep it that way.
I believe the purpose of your rhetorical quote was to imply no correlation or causal relation, thus calling for a separation such as in "church & state"
However, I like to think of it as: "Yes, both religion and stamp collecting can be enjoyed while nude."
I've always found the whole religion and nudity issue quite interesting and have read a great deal about it. As with most any topic, one can find quotes in the bible to opportunistically draw inferences between the scripture they are quoting and the position they are supporting or critiquing. This practice can be un/intentionally manipulative without the context in which the passage was derived and its underlying intent, especially when communicated to those without biblical knowledge.
The bible is a remarkably profound body of work both in its presentation of the history and insight on the human race as well as its undeniable scalability through the ages. History proves it is also probably the most abused document in attempts to use fear to gain power, control, wealth, etc... Therefore it is critical to use and understand the bible in its entirety. In that context, it seems the bible neither supports nor condones nudity/nudism. It actually appears to be quite indifferent on the whole topic and focuses more not on what one is wearing but rather on how one is thinking and behaving.
That said, I must conclude that in no way is being nude a sin. It is almost impossible to fathom that some actually believe wearing clothes is on the checklist for obtaining entry into Heaven. The gift of free will sure produces all kinds doesn't it?
Of course, I have no rigorous academic background in theology so the above is obviously nothing more than an individual opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
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VLM34
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Posted - 06/21/2008 : 12:51:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by FlCpl4NewdFun
quote:
Originally posted by VLM34
The relation between nudism and religion is exactly the same as the relation between nudism and stamp collecting. Let's keep it that way.
I believe the purpose of your rhetorical quote was to imply no correlation or causal relation, thus calling for a separation such as in "church & state"
However, I like to think of it as: "Yes, both religion and stamp collecting can be enjoyed while nude."
As can the absence of either or both.
I definitely intended to imply no correlation or causal relation between religion and nudism -- or any other necessary link. Those who do wish to link the two should do so with great discretion when others are present.
I'm of the opinion that public displays of religious activity at nudist venues are every bit as destructive as public displays of sexual activity -- and usually more so.
That is, overt religious expression should be kept at least as private as overt sexual expression.
Solicitations of a religious nature should be even more discreet than those of a sexual nature.
Swingers, for example, tend to be sensitive to a change of subject and do accept a polite "No, thank you." Proselytizers are almost always much harder to run off.
Let's keep nudism for everyone.
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What is the relation between religion and nudism?
