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curious1
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 Posted - 08/06/2005 : 06:31:38 AM
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One thing that occurred to me before my first nude experience was that I realized that I would be cognizant of the makeup of the group that is there. I realized if the group was too male, or too female, I would feel very odd.
I was lucky that the mix was not bad. Maybe 3:2 male to female.
Are others also more comfortable with a mixed setting? I found it interesting that I would have been uncomfortable with a bunch of males- I would have thought the female presence would be what I was self conscious about. As it turned out, I realized I needed the mix of people.
Any thoughts?
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vealj
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Posted - 08/07/2005 : 3:58:22 PM
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Personally I could care less whether the group is all male or all female or mixed. However, being in the "marketing" end of nudism since my beginning days I tend to think how a single woman on her first day at a nude event would feel un-escorted and then it's hands down, a 5:2 ratio females to males. Unfortunately, the reality of most nude events is the other way, 5:2 males to females. I guess it's a security thing. Women need to feel secure and most are taught from birth that there is no way in this society to feel secure if you are a woman nude in the midst of a male majority. That could explain why we are constantly short of women willing to "make the leap" and try out mixed gender nude activities for the first time. Interestingly, most women who do get past the "first leap" become suprisingly staunch advocates of a nude lifestyle.
Take care and ...
Keep it Bare !!!
- veal
http://www.vealj.com/naturist.html
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curious1
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Posted - 08/07/2005 : 5:43:49 PM
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Oddly enough, I am talking with 3 ladies about visiting one in Southern California as a group.
Go figure...
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old hippie
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/11/2005 : 3:43:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by vealj
I guess it's a security thing. Women need to feel secure and most are taught from birth that there is no way in this society to feel secure if you are a woman nude in the midst of a male majority. That could explain why we are constantly short of women willing to "make the leap" and try out mixed gender nude activities for the first time. Interestingly, most women who do get past the "first leap" become suprisingly staunch advocates of a nude lifestyle.
Take care and ...
Keep it Bare !!!
- veal
http://www.vealj.com/naturist.html
[emphasis added]
I think you have homed in on the true heart of the problem there, Veal. We, as a society, teach our female component to distrust the male contingent, and then wonder why we fail to communicate well. I am beginning to think that same factor is the underlying cause of some of our other tougher discussions, notably the thread about gawkers at a nude venue. Some posts from female members were adamant that the behavior is inherently threatening, and others (including this correspondent) suggested that if the gawker were ignored or scolded, it would go away. The missing aspect was the underlying training given to those women, and the way it would color their perception of the event.
So long as this society continues to teach our young that bodies are evil, and skin is ugly, and women are prey, we will have more problems than I can list on this page. I don't have a ready resolution to this situation, but it is encouraging to see more & more people at nude beaches, because I am sure that every practicing naturist is another step in the right direction.
Keep on marketing, and keep it bare!
my $.02 worth,
Th' Ol' Hippie
Dum vivimus, vivamus!
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NaturistDoc
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Posted - 11/11/2005 : 5:29:33 PM
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I have a slight quibble with Ol' Hippie's assertion that "[w]e, as a society, teach our female component to distrust the male contingent." No. Girls and women have learned their distrust of men from long experience. It's what our society teaches men that troubles me.
Doc (another ol' hippie)
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FireProf
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 Posted - 11/11/2005 : 9:33:10 PM
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Doc's got a point!
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old hippie
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/11/2005 : 11:24:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NaturistDoc
I have a slight quibble with Ol' Hippie's assertion that "[w]e, as a society, teach our female component to distrust the male contingent." No. Girls and women have learned their distrust of men from long experience. It's what our society teaches men that troubles me.
Doc (another ol' hippie)
(again, my emphasis)
-Good point, indeed.
I think, as Pogo put it, "We has met the enemy, and he is us." We are the society which perpetrates both sides of that coin: we teach the men to be agressive, and the women to be afraid. To the extent that we have generated this rift between large segments of our populace, we are the problem.
. One of the great beauties of the naturist setting, IMHO, is the minimal amount of that attitude. It's really difficult to act very haughty when both of you are standing there with your flabby tummies and your toes hanging out. Better, of course if you are both standing there in your glowing tan and in good health - but a generous naturalist will admire good condition, or forgive the poor one, without being (very) judgemental, right? We know the difference between a desirable goal and the present reality, don't we?
. And of course, the less obnoxious one side is, the easier for the other side to be gentle with the flaws. Peaceable kingdom, here we come.....
The Old Hippie
exploring the universe within
Dum vivimus, vivamus!
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nurserobin
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Posted - 11/12/2005 : 09:04:48 AM
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Society passes along information, through the news, TV, the classroom, your parents, friends, and oftimes and most disturbingly, firsthand. These are the things that teach women to not put themselves in compromising, threatening or potentially threatening situations daily. Unfortunately, men are the perpetrators in most scenarios of violence towards women, not only violence, but emotional abuse, and it only makes sense in this society anymore to think twice before you put yourself potentially into harm's way. A huge difficulty bringing women into nudism is asking them to suddenly trust the men they have learned throughout their lives are not trustworthy and at times dangerous, and to now do it with their clothes off to boot! I can see why married women are more likely to join in as they have that built-in security man along with them, but for a single woman who has dealt with the single man or even married men on a daily basis and very often in intimidating situations either at the workplace or in the dating pool, is a stretch. So you're right hippy and doc - but how to overcome these fears to enter that peaceable kingdom is the question. Then of course there's the Madison Avenue/supermodel/rejection issues to get past (phew!). Sometimes it all seems insurmountable, but probably easy for everyone else to ignore. Just some thoughts...
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FireProf
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 Posted - 11/12/2005 : 09:30:28 AM
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Makes perfect sense to me Robin.
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NaturistDoc
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Posted - 11/12/2005 : 1:55:57 PM
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I'm glad NurseRobin brought up the "Madison Avenue/supermodel/rejection issue". This is probably as toxic to potential women nudists as the thought of being victimized by men. And it is to their great shame that many nudist resorts feed into this totally unrealistic stereotype. See, for instance, the Eden Bay website. To judge by their photo galleries, the vast majority of their clientele are young and buff. Having visited several nude beaches and resorts, I knew better, so I was not surprised to arrive at Eden Bay and find the usual variety of the human form. But still ... this lack of "truth in advertising" must surely be off-putting to some sensitive souls whose bodies (like 99% of ours) do not quite match up to the fashion-page ideal. I don't mean to pick on Eden Bay; it's a great place, and I'll likely visit it again. Many other resorts have websites just as unrealistic. I think their marketing strategy misses the point of why most of go to nude resorts. I go to BE naked, not to SEE naked. I'll shut up now.
Doc
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FireProf
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Posted - 11/12/2005 : 8:15:28 PM
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No need to shut up Doc. Again you bring up a very good point. Many of the nude resorts use this tactic to "bring in the younger crowd." What happens is that the younger crowd shows up...see's us and then is upset because those that frequent these places don't match the pictures on the website.
What's wrong with showing who really goes to these places. If this younger generation is going to get into nudism for the right reasons then they shouldn't be tricked into thinking that all of us there have these model bodies that are being used to entice them there.
I think the idea of trying to get the younger generation into nudism is a good idea, but should our nudist resorts be deceptive in trying to do so?
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pilot
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Posted - 11/12/2005 : 9:54:07 PM
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NurseRobin, NaturistDoc, and I would guess FireProf as well have a bit of a professional advantage over the general public with respect to understanding the range of the human form. Suffice it to say that the first responders and medical professionals tend to see (nude) humans when they are not at their best, so that when seeing (nude) humans who are generally healthy, (a) there is an understanding of "normal" and (b) there is good reason to rejoice in seeing "healthy". (disclosure: I am a physician as well.)
One answer to "who is in the crowd" is the general mix of generally healthy humanity. But another answer is a mix of people who are relatively comfortable in their own skin, enjoy being social, yet have a respect for personal boundaries. Put differently, the community has an especially low tolerance for behaviors that make anyone uncomfortable, and prides itself on that low tolerance.
As an aside, I think that there is much that can be done to market social nudism as a healthy lifestyle to the next generation, promoting personal well-being, social health and community values in the process.
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