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Bare in the Desert
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 Posted - 11/12/2005 : 11:25:58 PM
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I have a situation and could use some advice. Several weeks ago the cat came out of the bag to my family about my nudist lifestyle. We had been at the resort all day and my mother was freaking out cuz she couldn't get a hold of me. When I called her back that evening, without thinking I told her where we were. She didn't take it well. The next day other family members called to ask if I was truly a nudist, they were more accepting of the idea. Anyway, now that everyone knows it will eventually get back to my ex-wife since she is still close with the family.
I'd like to talk with my ex about it before she finds out from someone else. If she gets the wrong impression it could effect our custody agreement with our 6 yr old daughter. We have joint custody but my daughter lives here and visits there every other weekend. Im hoping since my ex hasnt been bringing up changing the agreement for the last year that it wont be an issue by she is fairly conservative when it comes to nudity especially around our daughter.
So with all that in mind, does anyone have any advice on how to approach the subject of nudism with my ex-wife?
Dare to be Bare
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Cheri
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Posted - 11/13/2005 : 12:44:32 PM
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You might want to use the word skinnydipper rather than nudist as that has the proper, innocent connotation that nudist may not have with your ex-wife. Are you and your daughter nude for the most part of when she's there?
I would suggest getting in touch with AANR. They have much printed information for support of nudism. Additionally at the TNS website under Resources, there is a treatise called 205 arguments in support of naturism. Print it out and keep it handy.
I wish you well.
Best regards,
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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pilot
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Posted - 11/13/2005 : 2:21:46 PM
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You should discuss these matters with your attorney so that s/he is not surprised. It's hard to know how your ex will use the information. But you do not want your personal representative to be blind-sided about the issue.
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GeeWilly
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Posted - 11/14/2005 : 2:27:44 PM
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Your question, Bare in the Desert, is how to obtain your ex-wife's approval for visiting nudist venues (apparently with your daughter). But the underlying issue is whether your custody arrangement might be changed because of doing such. If your daughter does not accompany you when you go to the "resort," the underlying question differs somewhat.
Your ex-wife's conservative attitude does not suggest a favorable answer to the approval concern. But your daughter's age tends to reduce any present impact (young children are natural nudists). Since the cat is out, just matter-of-factly ask her. Don't wait (your daughter is getting older).
(Bare, I'm not a member of the Arizona bar so I cannot give you legal advice. Pilot's advice to consult with your attorney is correct.) Generally, custody decisions are not changed without a showing of unfitness on the part of a custodial parent. The child's welfare is usually paramount; e.g., how the social, moral, and educational needs will be met. In this context, the issue becomes whether a nudist lifestyle would be deemed immoral in Arizona for purposes of rearing a child. You do live in Arizona? Of course, this assumes that your ex will contend that such is not moral.
If the resort you visit is Hedonism II, you might not win this one, Bare. But if it is the family-oriented, absolutely non-sexual resort or club usually spoken of on this website, you have a solid position. The descriptor, "family-oriented" speaks for itself. And many of these forums have defended nudism against its hedonistic cousin. The compromise position would be for you to only practice naturism when your daughter is visiting her mother.
Depending on your jurisdiction's case law, you might have a scrap on your hands. Good luck!
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Bare in the Desert
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Posted - 11/16/2005 : 11:22:32 PM
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Well, dont have an attorney to consult anymore but the last bit of legal advice I received was to be careful. The courts here are interested in what's in the best interest of the child. And the courts also favor a "normal" livestyle to give the child a stable environment.
We are nude at home and we dont take the kids to the resort. (My girlfriend has a 12 yr old daughter also living with us.) And we only visit one family-friendly, c/o resort here in AZ, the Hedonism type resorts arent for us.
After some research it looks like your right GeeWilly. If this was to become a legal issue the worst to happen would be to cut back the nudism at home while my daughter was present. What I do on my own time is not a reflection of my parenting skills. So with that in mind I just need to work up the courage. My ex and I are finally on a steady, positive relationship now and Im trying to be careful not to shake that up for our daugher's sake.
With that in mind I was wondering if anyone had any ideas of how to ease into the subject rather than just coming right out and saying im a nudist. I do like the idea of calling it skinny dipping once I get up to that part. We did start talking about shaving body hair. Thought that was gonna be a good segue in to nudism but got dead ended when she voice her negative opinions of men shaving anything other than faces.
Dare to be Bare
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pilot
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Posted - 11/17/2005 : 9:25:14 PM
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Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. This is nothing more than reflection, and should not be construed as anything more.
You may be on firmer ground being nude at home with family versus a social situation with non-family. Whatever your ex might think about your choices, it would be very hard to persuade the average American that "seeing daddy (or mommy) naked" is injurious to the well-being of a child of either gender.
It could well be important, however, to be exquisitely sensitive to your daughter's choices and that she not feel pressured in any way to follow your lead. If there were ever a question about her choosing nudity over textiles, one of the first questions that will be raised is whether she felt obligated to make a particular choice.
It's not clear what interest your ex should have in your personal grooming choices. It seems unwise to pursue that line of discussion.
While I think that Cheri's suggestion of the term "skinnydipper" is excellent, it may be less relevant if you do not have a pool and might raise questions in your ex's mind about where you are taking "_her_" daughter for recreation.
Another potentially useful explanation is that you wear clothes for the practical purpose of staying at a comfortable temperature, and in your home, people choose how much clothing they need to stay comfortable. In Arizona, this may be a fairly wide range of preferences and temperatures. But I am not at all sure that you should offer this explanation to your ex unless asked.
As for the rest of your family, my best suggestion is to be casual about your choices and sensitive to their feelings. A few years ago, my brother-in-law and his then fiance called to ask if they could come over to swim in our pool one hot summer afternoon. Sure, we replied, and incidentally we generally don't bother with swimsuits but we're happy to put them on if you would otherwise be uncomfortable. He paused for maybe a second and said please don't feel obligated on our account, whatever you do is fine with us. They came over, chose to wear swimsuits and had a pleasant afternoon. But the next time they came over, they didn't bother with swimsuits either. Simply letting your family know that you have made a choice, being respectful of their feelings and providing them with the opportunity to "try out" your choice can result in your choice becoming their choice.
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Bare in the Desert
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Posted - 11/17/2005 : 11:06:46 PM
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Agreed. The kids are not pressured in anyway to join or even accept the nudist life still. My daughter sometimes chooses to be nude and sometimes not. The only time the choice is made for her is when company is coming that is not accepting of nudism or we are going out. At those times its clothes on. My girlfriends daughter chooses not to be a nudist but does not mind us being nude. We respect their feelings on the subject and talked to both of them about it, if either one has a problem with it we would keep our clothes on.
I think the if my ex was to hear about our lifestyle in the house for some else it would look as if it was a secret. Nudity, kids and secrets are not a good mix so the reason I want her to know is to avoid that. It is her business what her daughter is doing over here as much as it is my business what she is doing at my ex's house. You're right, the shaving topic was a dead end and cant really talk about skinnydipping right off the bat since I do not have pool. I think I'll just ask her opinion of nudism and figure it out from there.
Dare to be Bare
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GeeWilly
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Posted - 11/18/2005 : 3:46:56 PM
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Bare, I think you're playing with fire. Children under seven years old are just not considered to be decision makers. They tend to do what their parents (or parent figures) do. So everything you do amounts to "pressuring" them. Or so it might be argued.
I think the personal assurance (maybe body acceptance is a better term?) gained from allowing a child to be nude is nothing but positive for that child. Arizona courts may be less agreeable? But as a daughter grows and becomes more aware of what others (her peers) think and do, her mind set may change. As girls approach adolescence (and almost without exception during such) they become much more body aware. No doubt you've seen it? I saw it with my darlin' daughter. And the positive effects of her earlier lifestyle may be readily discarded. Then it is truly her choice.
The good relationship with your ex may be your most valuable asset. And that you have it indicates that respect is present somewhere. Good Luck!
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Bare in the Desert
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Posted - 11/19/2005 : 4:02:54 PM
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Thanks Gee, I understand what you mean. Dispite my girlfriend's assurances I do have my concerns about the nudism here at home around my daughter without her mother's consent. Right now it feels like a dirty little secret and that really bothers me. I've come to the conclusion that I need to talk to my ex about it or stop the nudity around my daughter. And if shes ok with it, great. If not, the my lifestyle will just have to be set asside for time when shes not home and at the resort. I hope that wont be the case but I have to plan for the worst, I will not give up my daughter.
Thank you all for the input, Ill let ya know how it turns out.
Dare to be Bare
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curious1
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Posted - 11/20/2005 : 08:50:08 AM
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Dare...
Have you spoken to an attorney? Personally, I believe it would be best for you to NOT be nude when you have your daughter there until you have your ex-wife's input. I know for me, one thing about my ex-wife that displeased me was her complete disregard for my views and beliefs in the raising of our daughter. With something as controversial as nudism, and with her being custodial, it would seem to me you have a recipe for serious issues.
You cannot fall back on anything about the child's reactions at age 6 when it comes to custody and visitation. From my experiences, simply put, if she has custody, you have to adhere to her wishes in anything not specifically spelled out in your decree.
Perhaps I am colored by my own experiences, but having done this without the mother's permission leaves you in a very bad situatio.
Curious1
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Corasol
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Posted - 11/20/2005 : 09:36:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheri
You might want to use the word skinnydipper rather than nudist as that has the proper, innocent connotation that nudist may not have with your ex-wife. Are you and your daughter nude for the most part of when she's there?
I would suggest getting in touch with AANR. They have much printed information for support of nudism. Additionally at the TNS website under Resources, there is a treatise called 205 arguments in support of naturism. Print it out and keep it handy.
I wish you well.
Best regards,
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Maybe you already know about it.... but anyway...here it is
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Corasol
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Bare in the Desert
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/03/2006 : 12:23:05 AM
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To update those who are interested, I finally got a chance to talk with my ex.
I explained to her my views on nudism and reasons for being a nudist and I'm happy to announce she is very open minded about it. I told explained my concerns and assured me something like this was not cause for any legal action.
As a matter of fact she seemed somewhat interested and we are gonna talk more about it when we get a chance.
She is fine with our daughter being nude at home but prefers she not go to the resorts and such which is what we do now anyway. She doesn't know my girlfriend and I also are nude at home in the presents of the kids yet but we'll talk about that in our next conversation.
Feels good to get everything settled.
Anyway, I said I'd let everyone know how it went so there ya have it. Happy day! Thanks for the advise guys.
Dare to be Bare
http://members.cox.net/freedomaz01
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nudetoo
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Posted - 02/03/2006 : 10:50:23 AM
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sound to me like you and your ex have a good relationship. concider your self lucky. I think mine would go beserk! even though my kids are 22&25.(she would have a cow, I think she may have forgotten about the nights sitting on the back porch years ago). good luck!
Just me, Willy
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Bare in the Desert
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Posted - 02/05/2006 : 01:18:22 AM
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Sorry to hear that nudetoo. I pretty much let the cat outta the bag to everyone. I thought she wouldn't be to happy about it and other people I told I thought were very open minded said it was weird. Ya just never know how people are gonna react to things.
I its good that your kids are adults. Makes your personal life non of your ex's business.
Dare to be Bare
http://members.cox.net/freedomaz01
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nudetoo
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Posted - 02/05/2006 : 02:22:55 AM
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dont bet on it! she is still mad that someone dropped a house on her sister in that wizard of oz movie.
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Edited by - nudetoo on 02/05/2006 02:24:49 AM |
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Bare in the Desert
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Posted - 02/05/2006 : 09:29:13 AM
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Ha, that's funny. I guess I am pretty lucky. I do remember a time right after the divorce where everything was a battle. I couldn't imagine having to deal with that all the time. I feel for ya, good luck and watchout for flying monkeys!
Dare to be Bare
http://members.cox.net/freedomaz01
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