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FlCpl4NewdFun
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 Posted - 04/05/2008 : 5:24:38 PM
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First off, a little background info may be helpful.
My wife and I have only been participating in social nudism for a little over a year, although we’ve (okay mostly me) have been home nudists for years. Making the step into social nudism has been great for our relationship and we both enjoy the relaxing aspect of it. It by no means defines us and we have only told a limited number of friends and family. However, lately I’ve been revealing it to more friends but have yet to get any of them to join in the fun. After reading several message boards and blogs about nudism over the past few months I’ve found this particular community seems to be the most diverse and offer the most realistic discussions and helpful information. Now, on to my confusion.
There seems to be quite a strong theme across many of the posts that nudists need to check their sexuality at the door when they enter a social setting. Particularly, their innate biological response of attraction and adrenal rush to thrill seeking activities such as those that may contain some form of exhibitionism or are voyeuristic in nature. As with most things in nature there is a wide spectrum of behaviors that fall in to this category but I am only referring to those involuntary responses to external stimuli, as opposed to active participation for shock value such as flashing for beads at Mardi Gras. For instance, if clothes or any other form of cover never existed there would be no such thing as nudism. However, the desire for pleasure is innately human and not within our direct control. Thus, one would have to devise or participate in some other form of activity to fulfill their subconscious desire to obtain the needed resolution. My whole point is humans are sexual beings; in fact it’s an absolute necessity to our survival. I just don’t see how anyone can bifurcate their sexuality/fantasies/desires and their nudism. I’m not by any means saying practicing nudism is sexual, quite the contrary. I actually believe textile beaches are much more sexually charged due to bathing suits being purposely designed to accentuate a woman’s body. Many non-nudists won’t understand, but my libido actually decreases when practicing nudism.
As I’m sure many of you have experienced, when confronted with counter-intuitive positions such as homophobia, religious fundamentalism, ultra left/right wing political rhetoric, etc… it is likely the result of needing to bring some internal cognitive dissonance to resolution. We’ve all seen it: the anti-gay activist or family-values politician getting caught with a male prostitute, the elitist millionaire liberals or Hollywood actors telling others what to do about the environment while their own carbon footprint is bigger than many small communities, and the list goes on. The reality is it’s unavoidable, we all engage in this behavior to some extent. Just hopefully not on as grand a scale.
So being fairly new to all of this, when I see posts where others are trying to get into one’s mind and tell them what they are thinking, or they are not a “TRUE” nudist, or their behavior is not “TRUE” nudist behavior I get quite confused about nudism. In various threads people have shared their experiences about getting caught naked, or the thrill of shedding the clothes in a non-traditional place, or God forbid going to - -. While most see this as innocent fun, others claim it is exhibitionism and not good for nudism. My question then is if one lives their whole life as a nudist and in the nudist community with the highest of morals and public character, but secretly this individual is only a nudist to fulfill some sort of sexual desire but goes to the grave without telling a sole. Was that individual a nudist? Now the same situation but this person is open and honest in their thoughts with fellow nudists and is thus shunned by many. Is it not then the revealing of the information that defined the nudist not their underlying motivation?
Now back to my confusion. I guess I just don’t understand at this point is how nudism can be a philosophy given the diverse range of people and individual motivations that leads one to be a nudist. Seems more like a lifestyle for a small few and a practice for most. If we really want nudism to become more socially accepted we shouldn’t be focusing on suppressing the sexuality of adult nudists which is a lost cause with no pay-off. Attention starved nude protestors have done more to damage the reputation of nudism than all other indiscretions combined. Or what about going after those disgusting horrific “naturist” websites that sell DVDs of family naturism. Only pedophiles by those, there are absolutely no justifiable reasons ever to video and photograph young children to distribute over the Internet period! That is the true evil that consistently gives nudism the perpetual black eye.
However, we can tout and focus on its normalcy. This board is slathered with smug comments about how enlightened, open-minded, honest, friendly, free, environmentally conscience, and other self-indulgent characterizations of nudists, bla, bla, bla. I’m sure many of you are all those things, but the fact is, just as with any group, there are both A-holes and angels among us and everything in between. I’ve been known two exhibit both qualities in an amazingly short time period, go figure. Why can’t it just be about enjoying nudity and the freedom it brings?
Am I confused, wrong, completely nuts, or possibly on to something?
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Diger
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Posted - 04/05/2008 : 7:54:30 PM
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I have my suspicions, but I don't know you enough to say if your nuts. (Just kidding)
Sounds like you’re still getting settled in to your new life style, most people coming to nudism do so with a little voyeurism in mind. I know I did, but you soon find out it’s the most nonsexual thing you can do. I can’t explain it and I don’t try to, I just enjoy it.
My advice is don’t over think it, it will just give you a headache.
Diger
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rooftopwilly
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Posted - 04/05/2008 : 11:17:18 PM
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Wow, a lot to think about there. I see nudity in many different ways.
First off, is just being nude in and of itself. I love it. I love the feeling of not having a single stitch of clothing on. If I could go everywhere, and do everything nude, I would.
Then there is the voyeuristic side of nudity. I like when someone sees me naked. It excites me. Not excites in a sexual way, but in a "I'm sharing the way I want to be with someone" kinda way. I also like to see the human body naked. I appreciate it.
Then there is the voyeristic/sexual side. I love going to strip clubs. The female body is a beautiful thing, and in strip clubs, the sexual aspect of it is just a turn on.
We also have the sexual side. Let's face it, having sex with our clothes on isn't very fun.
I see it like this, if you enjoy being naked, and as you said enjoy the freedom it brings, then you are a nudist. I don't believe that I have to have a certain ideal mind frame, or way of thinking, in order to be considered a "true" nudist. Will others agree? No they won't, but that's their opinions, and these are mine.
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go n nude
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 10:27:04 AM
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The freedom to enjoy social nude recreation is really yours to enjoy, where or when they choose or who they share it with would be their choice and who they tell is their business.The sexism side is seen with sites images of nudism of all ages for sexual gratification. Some will pay for that thrill. True we're sexual beings and we enjoy nudism without sexism.As many have witnessed with a few resorts sexism has been their demise or demoralize this lifestyle to sexism.Too many equate the 2 together causing that confusion or opinion, thats keeping many from enjoying wholesome nude recreation.
go n nude
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Country: Canada
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agde
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 12:52:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by FlCpl4NewdFun
Am I confused, wrong, completely nuts, or possibly on to something?
Very thought provoking. The confusion about nudity and sexuality, it seems to me, is actually inverted. We live in societies where sexuality is often associated with fear of excess, violence and harm, especially towards women. In one way, clothing is seen as a symbolic protective shield and lack of clothing as an invitation to intimacy.
Naturism merely seeks to remove clothing as the symbolic frontier of personal vulnerability -- lack of clothing should thus not signal any change in normal civilized behavior towards one another. This does not deny our "adult sexuality" but it does imply a different set of norms where lack of clothing does not signal an invitation to intimacy, sexual or otherwise. "True naturists" are simply individuals who have genuinely internalized those norms in, as the Vatican might call it, "thought, word and deed." It is a process and some people may never quite get beyond "word and deed" -- which is basically how human society works in general. Exhibitionism and voyeurism however are innately problematic at the "deed" level. Since naturism in fact is really not about being nude, but rather about not treating others differently whether they are clothed or not, it could be argued that the "naturist community" can even include non-nudists who accept others' nudity as just a personal choice of attire.
The bottomline, for me, is that naturism does not "suppress sexuality" or require nudists to "check their sexuality at the door" in the sense you are suggesting -- it just takes clothing out of the equation as a signal to appropriate "thought, word and deed."
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Edited by - agde on 04/06/2008 1:02:57 PM |
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catbird
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 2:39:00 PM
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FlCpl4NewdFun has composed an erudite exposition about nudism.
My gut feeling is that he is on to something, but he is trying too hard to understand nudism.
My suggestion is to just enjoy the freedom without clothes. True, we are all sexual beings. But I believe that he will find that it is natural to just leave sex at the door. There is the 12 step slogan "Easy does it."
Naturally, Catbird
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Bill Bowser
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 4:47:29 PM
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Well, it seems to me that our suppression of the sexual aspects of nudism results from the fact that we nudists are an attractive target for the ultra-conservatives who would like to prevent us from enjoying our preferred lifestyle. We strive to exclude any activity that could be considered sexual in nature in order to avoid criticism from those who would prefer that we kept our clothes on. I think maybe we go a little bit too far, but it is a somewhat blurry line that separates that which is acceptable from that which is not.
Bill
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Phydeau
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Posted - 04/06/2008 : 10:37:53 PM
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Very well-put question. You've touched some of the things that were causing me reservations before I started pursuing this lifestyle.
Agde said one thing very well about the lack of clothing being viewed as an invitation of intimacy. That's a big issue, and it's something that for the time-being is kind of out of the hands of the minority that don't see it that way. Maybe there is, but I can't see the immediate solution to that.
You mentioned flashing for beads at Mardi Gras. Not only are people going to be involuntarily attracted to other people, but that particular image brought up another point. Part of human survival is putting ones self on display to be an attractive mate. Both of these are normal human characteristics. There's a time and place for it, and it's all a wonderful part of the ride. Few here would argue with that. But again, it about removing the cloth from the equation. Aside from the attire, what wouldn't be appropriate in the textile world is not going to be appropriate on a nude beach. [I can't speak from experience, since I'm new as well, but from what I gather, in the case of erections, it's how you behave yourself, not that you have one.]
"the desire for pleasure is innately human and not within our direct control." Gospel truth. Attraction is not a conscious choice. But your reaction to it is.
"I actually believe textile beaches are much more sexually charged due to bathing suits being purposely designed to accentuate a woman’s body." Bingo. 95% of the people here will back you on that one.
"In various threads people have shared their experiences about getting caught naked, or the thrill of shedding the clothes in a non-traditional place, or God forbid going to - -." There are threads about exhibitionism and voyeurism. I'm actually kind of with you on some of those posts.
"there are absolutely no justifiable reasons ever to video and photograph young children to distribute over the Internet period!" Nobody here is going to argue that (I hope). There are a few true artists that have painted and photographed underaged nudists, but the people buying those videos are clearly not into art.
I'm going to second Diger. Don't over-think it. Find places and situations that work for you.
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FlCpl4NewdFun
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Posted - 04/07/2008 : 8:05:01 PM
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First off thanks to all for the sincere responses. Particularly since I may have gotten a little spun-up when I was writing it. I'm glad to see moderates have won the day on this thread so far.
I do tend to dive-in and look for the analytical and logical "root-cause" of actions and behaviors. I'm just hard-wired that way I guess, it's been both a blessing and burden in my professional and personal life. The weird thing is when I'm in a social nude setting I'm quite laid back and go with the flow but that same feeling doesn't materialize when nude at home or when alone. But as Popeye always said "I am what I am and that's all that I am" Very profound!
ADMIN - what's up with taking editorial liberties with the title of my post and moving it to this section? I purposely didn't post it here because it's not about confusing nudism with sex or do nudist have sex? My confusion stemmed from the various posts that lead me to infer that many nudists want to suppress their sexuality and define what is appropriate for nudism as a whole, which is entirely different than one being confused that nudism is all about sex. In fact, its the direct opposite. I want to know why many nudists can't simultaneously embrace their sexuality and nudism. I also chose the title I did for a reason. The title is no longer mine, it is yours and should be labeled as such. That said, given the great board you run here and following the sage advice of many above I'll not "over-think-it" assume you meant well, and say it's all good.
Now it's off to my hot tub with a glass of wine to zone out for an hour before the NCAA championship game comes on.
Cheers
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nudenewbie
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Posted - 04/08/2008 : 3:54:03 PM
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Such deep and thought-provoking responses! Not sure if I have the intellectual acumen to top anything that's already been expressed, but here's my 2 cents (or maybe only 1 cent):
I think that despite being "enlightened" nudists, we still carry with us, at least a tiny part, of that yoke that civilization puts upon us that says that nudity only occurs in the presence of another person when sexual activity is about to commence, or at least is desired. Although I think this is one of society's artificial constructs, it's been around for enough centuries that most people tend to accept that as truth. And indeed, most adults in our society are only naked around each other (particularly in mixed company) when they are being sexual with each other, or for specifically sexually exhibitionist reasons (porn, strip clubs), or at least only restricted to people who have a sexual relationship (such as spouses who might be naked around each other while not being sexual, but still having sex as an occasional part of their relationship).
That sort of Pavlovian response to nudity takes time to completely shake off.
And since we're all sexual beings, we are going to be plagued with sexual thoughts sometimes regardless of whether we're clothed or not---that's the sad irony we face: a person wearing clothes will be expected to sometimes feel sexual and sometimes not, depending on the situation, or the time of day, or that person's thoughts, whatever....it's normal.
We as nudists are no different---I assume that I feel sexual no more often nor less often than any non-nudist. The trouble is, that if those feelings occur while nude, the world assumes that the nudity ITSELF is the cause. Which usually isn't true (or even if it's true on an isolated case or two, the world erroneously concludes that nudity will ALWAYS induce sexual feelings).
This is what we're up against. And even though I consider myself actually more open-minded about sexuality than I appear on many of my posts, I must defer to what others have so deftly stated before: we live in a tenuous world where strong forces wish to deny us our few venues where we can enjoy our naturist lifestyles. Even if those forces are wrong, we have little room for error and there is great concern in our community that we give those opposing forces NO ammunition to use against us.
True, it's not fair (a clothed boyfriend/girlfriend kissing on a park bench might get some finger-wagging but it won't indict the whole clothes-wearing community----the same behavior on nude beach unfortunately might).
Maybe that comes across as being overly strict in de-sexualizing 100% of everything related to nudism, but that may simply be the sad cost in preserving what few venues we have in this country.
I wish it were different, but change is slow, unfortunately.
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Admin
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 11:34:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by FlCpl4NewdFun
ADMIN - what's up with taking editorial liberties with the title of my post and moving it to this section? I purposely didn't post it here because it's not about confusing nudism with sex or do nudist have sex? My confusion stemmed from the various posts that lead me to infer that many nudists want to suppress their sexuality and define what is appropriate for nudism as a whole, which is entirely different than one being confused that nudism is all about sex. In fact, its the direct opposite. I want to know why many nudists can't simultaneously embrace their sexuality and nudism. I also chose the title I did for a reason. The title is no longer mine, it is yours and should be labeled as such. That said, given the great board you run here and following the sage advice of many above I'll not "over-think-it" assume you meant well, and say it's all good.
Fair question. From time to time I'll see a new thread that contains valuable information, or unusually profound viewpoints from our members. This magical post is often buried in the General section, or misplaced. Since one overall purpose of this forum is to present real information about nudism in a logical, easy to navigate format, of course we sometimes move things around a bit.
Isn't it nice the system automatically emails you when we move your post?
Where the thread has a simple title like "I'm so confused", I ask myself if someone with a question, for instance in this case about Nudism and Sexuality, would think of finding the answer there. If not, I try to preserve the original title as much as possible, editing it slightly or adding something to clarify the intent.
In this case, location-wise, I'll admit it didn't fit there as well as it should. I'm restructuring this area and renaming the old "Confusing Nudism and Sex" forum, to widen it and style it "Nudism and Sexuality". That way I can preserve your decidedly ambiguous title, and give it context.
It also opens up the general question about "true" nudism a bit, which I agree needs answering, and might take a few more various threads before we're all satisfied.
[Added]Oops, almost accidentally tossed a valuable keyword there. Gotta keep those keywords working for us. I've changed the section title to "Nudism, Sex and Sexuality".[/Added]
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FlCpl4NewdFun
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 5:44:17 PM
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I like it!...and yes the email was a nice touch. I thought the ambiguous title would actually get more people to open it, never thought about in the context of someone doing a search for a specific piece of information. Good point!
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Admin
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 8:53:50 PM
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It's all good. 
The topic got sort of hijacked there...
So, what do you other folks think of the confusion surrounding the concept of the "true" nudist?
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catbird
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Posted - 04/10/2008 : 1:57:40 PM
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There is the "search" button in upper right of web page. This is for somebody searching for specific information. And the information could be in any category. The "search" command does seem to respond to something in the body of the missive, as well as in the subject title.
Naturally, Catbird
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n/a
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Posted - 04/21/2008 : 10:28:03 PM
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I just read a "professional" opinion on "true nudism". That person said that a true nudist is one who simply chooses not to wear clothing at times when others "normally" do. No, I can't remember where I read it. Sorry. At my age, I'm lucky I can even remember what was said. I'm fairly new to being actually labeled "nudist", so You tell ME, please - is this right? I've read so many other opinions on this the last couple of days, I'm just gonna take my clothes off and let you call me whatever you want to.
Hiking the Cascades "naturally"!
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allnaturalwife
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Posted - 04/22/2008 : 2:21:33 PM
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Although I myself have used terms such as "true nudist" many times, I still to this day, hate all of the negative reaction they cause from many people. Northwest-- I cant be certain, but I think you might have read that quote in one of my posts. I have a very simple definition of what a nudist is: Its simply someone who prefers not to wear clothes, than to wear them. Thats it. Im sure many of us could write a 50 page discertation of the psychological reasons why we all want and/or like to be naked. With so many fancy phrases and terminology,that anyone might even question what they believe themselves. I have found that many in a debate, give lengthy arguments filled with complicated references, metaphors and the like. By the time you get to the end of it all, you forget what the heck the origional question or topic was. Not saying that anyone here is or has done that. As there are MANY people who will lock on to anything they can find in a post to launch into a lengthy diatribe-- I would hope we can all take my post at face value.
So to reiterate the simplicty of MY views on the entire subject of "What a nudist is" A nudist to me is simply one who prefers not to wear clothes rather than wear them" Terms such as "real nudist" or "true nudist" , are ONLY used by me to deferentiate those who participate in clothes free living for reasons OTHER than to just be naked, ie: voyerism, exhibitionism, or the like. Please understand that.
Also in reference to nudism and sex: To put it as simply as I know how: Nudism is not about sex, but anyone can think about sex at any waking moment. If my husband and I are at our local club playing water volleyball, He can think about having sex AND play the game at the same time. He can even control himself not to jump on me right there in the pool. Us human beings are quite amazing in that way. Having multiple thoughts all at once. Nudists do NOT want to "supress their sexuality" or anything of that nature. What most of us want to do is simply make it clear that NUDISM IS NOT ABOUT SEX. Key word being "about". I just am not seeing where in that statement people get the whole " nudists are opposed to sex thing" Its reading something that isnt there.
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Edited by - allnaturalwife on 04/22/2008 6:36:36 PM |
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I'm so Confused
