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Ranger191
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Posted - 08/17/2008 : 01:58:03 AM
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Dear AJO127,
Why would you want to boycott the only places that ALLOW you to be nude in the company of others outside of your home? Land costs money, a pool costs money, if you think there is a simpler solution available, I heartily suggest that you start your own landed club where you have full control over pricing, membership, expenses, etc.
My over-riding thought (I accept that I may be wrong in this) about your experiences is that its too expensive. If you believe that things are too expensive, then change it. Buy the land, build the structures, PAY yourself and your future employees for their time to make your dream a reality. Being financially challenged myself, I would LOVE a less expensive nudist destination that was more affordable. My honest thought is that most owners (outside of places like - -) pay themselves a great deal less than they would like. They're making the sacrifice to live a lifesytle that they value.
But to form a boycott against a location that's providing you with the experience you desire? Most of the places I go to appear to be run on a shoe string budget, some even relying heavily on their members for simple functions like answering a phone or greeting guests or even in some cases, mowing the lawn and cleaning the pool.
All of these things form a community and a society in which people wish to spend their free time and part with their wages to experience, because along with their membership fees, they feel like they're creating something good. If you can't find what you want, then CREATE it. The world is truly your oyster, dig for the pearl. There is an entire world to choose a location from, make your idea happen.
Its always easiest to shout from the sidelines. Be different, if you don't like what's out there...MAKE a difference.
If I'm wrong about the expense then vote with your dollars. Don't go to the places that you don't like, where you don't feel accepted or where you feel overburdened with expectations.
ANNR, TNS please pardon me for what I'm about to say:
We nudists are too few in number, we don't have a loud voice that people will respect and automatically let us live our lives as we wish to, or at lest as I would wish to, without clothes.
Don't, please don't, begin a splinter movement that separates us.
Nobility is not a birthright, it is defined by one's actions.
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go n nude
Forum Member
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 Posted - 08/17/2008 : 08:20:00 AM
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Nudist resorts visited in Flausa. met all expectations and in comparison to cost's were not extreme compared to our local resort's fee's for membership/day visitor. We found them to be friendly and clean, mangement and staff were helpful and respectful. Food prices in comparison were fair as opposed to restaurants outside the resorts. We know they have to profit and cover their exspenses for their exsistance. The bottom line, no free lunch. We also know their many members are proud of their resorts and think they are getting more for their money than they're paying.
go n nude
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Country: Canada
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/17/2008 : 08:27:05 AM
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Ranger
I agree with you that the money issue is part of my complaint. However, it isn't the only issue. The other complaint is that I feel like I'm being dissed every time I vacation at a naturist resort. I felt that way in St. Martin and most recently in the south of France. Perhaps two experiences like that aren't enough to characterize the entire industry. That's why I opened this discussion thread to solicit others' thoughts about the matter and to have forum members suggest solutions. As a child of the 60s, the boycott approach comes to mind for me. If owners realize that they are losing business, perhaps they will improve their product.
With respect to the money issue, you argue that they have to cover the capital costs of buying land, building facilities, etc. So do all other resorts in the area. In fact, their costs are just as high or higher because they build more facilities.
Finally, if I had the money, time and experience I would definitely try to establish a clothing-optional resort which provides the same standard of service as the textile resorts at a competitive price. Sadly, I don't have the resources to do that.
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Edited by - AJ0127 on 08/17/2008 08:35:22 AM |
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Country: Canada
| Posts: 46 |
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/17/2008 : 10:41:02 AM
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AJ, Your profile doesn't say where in Canada you are located. Why not find a nonlanded club; they are less expensive and operate all year long generally?!
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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http://pages.prodigy/cheridonna
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Country: USA
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/17/2008 : 5:32:08 PM
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Cheri
I live in southern Ontario, Canada. Yes, there are non-landed clubs here as well as landed clubs. Some are affiliated with AANR and I think that all are affiliated with the Federation of Canadian Naturists. I don't have any concerns about these clubs - landed or travel clubs. My concern is about clothing-optional resorts and how they treat their guests. My experience hasn't been very encouraging. Easily the worst treatment I experienced in France last June came at the only clothing optional resort we visited. To me, these people do nothing to promote naturism. I would like to see these resorts improve their product and treat their guests with respect. THAT would promote naturism.
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Diger
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Posted - 08/17/2008 : 6:59:14 PM
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We have always been treated friendly and with respect. So I can't see where the problem is. Of course the Wife and I both make friends easily, and are very out going people. You have to make friends to have friends.
Diger
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FlCpl4NewdFun
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Posted - 08/17/2008 : 8:03:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AJ0127
Ranger
As a child of the 60s, the boycott approach comes to mind for me. If owners realize that they are losing business, perhaps they will improve their product.
AJ0127 - sorry you've had some bad experiences, but maybe as a child of the 60's you have a bit of entitlement mentality. Boycotts just don't work. Instead of boycotting the very limited number of resorts we have, we should be trying to educate society and normalize nudism thus increasing the demand for more resorts and clubs. The free market works every time it's tired. Get the government out of the way, and let the people's demand drive products.
I wasn't alive in the 60's so I can't really speak to the actual impact it had, but as far as I can tell, the 60s is much more romanticized by the Boomers who are currently running the show, than the true cultural impact it had. I suspect that most children of the 60s did what everybody else does. Go to college, get a job, start a family, get a mortgage, then work hard all their life to pay that mortgage and retire with some dignity.
Sorry for the rant, talk of the 60s always leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. It spawned the self-indulgent 70s and the it's all about Me Me Me....80s. In it's dust it left a legacy of epidemic number of divorces and sense of entitlement. As well as an entire generation of young people looking at the media manufactured ideals of the 60s leading them to believe interrupting lectures on a college campus is their 1st amendment right. You know the whole "Free Speech for me, Not for Thee" attitude.
But I digress......
As far as value, My wife and I have been to four resorts/clubs here in FL and one in CA. Luckily I have found all of them to be quite inexpensive and good value relative to textile venues of similar quality. I also have found the staff and guest to be exponentially more friendly than at textile resorts. It's quite rare for my wife and I to leave a textile resort with new friends. However, it happens just about every time when we go to destinations sans clothes.
At the end of the day, more acceptance = more demand = more options = better service = Hooray!
Cheers!
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/18/2008 : 07:56:47 AM
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quote:
AJ0127 - sorry you've had some bad experiences, but maybe as a child of the 60's you have a bit of entitlement mentality. Boycotts just don't work. Instead of boycotting the very limited number of resorts we have, we should be trying to educate society and normalize nudism thus increasing the demand for more resorts and clubs. The free market works every time it's tired. Get the government out of the way, and let the people's demand drive products.
But I digress......
As far as value, My wife and I have been to four resorts/clubs here in FL and one in CA. Luckily I have found all of them to be quite inexpensive and good value relative to textile venues of similar quality. I also have found the staff and guest to be exponentially more friendly than at textile resorts. It's quite rare for my wife and I to leave a textile resort with new friends. However, it happens just about every time when we go to destinations sans clothes.
At the end of the day, more acceptance = more demand = more options = better service = Hooray!
I agree. You did start your post with a digression. However, I disagree with your suggestion that as a man in his 50s, I have some sense of entitlement. I'm glad that you've found some resorts in California that have provided good value for money. Perhaps I'll visit them some day.
With respect to boycotts, let's say that there is some merit in your arguments about supporting the few resorts which are clothing-optional. However, if we as consumers don't demand value for money, the resort owners won't be giving it.
Boycotts do work. Cesar Chavez organized boycotts of California grapes in the 60s and 70s. They helped improve conditions for migrant workers. Also, when the Detroit auto makers turned out inferior products, consumers bought foreign cars instead. Detroit has cleaned up its act to some extent but they haven't recovered their market share.
All in all, I see nothing wrong with demanding value for money and I see nothing wrong with the consumer exercising his right to choose. I hope that some resort owners are reading this and that they will get the message. As for the owners who are trying to provide value for money, I applaud them - wherever they may be.
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FlCpl4NewdFun
Forum Member
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Posted - 08/18/2008 : 8:19:36 PM
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quote:
I disagree with your suggestion that as a man in his 50s, I have some sense of entitlement.
AJ0127 - I didn't intend to imply you personally as a man in your 50's, my apologies if it came across that way. It was specific to your reference to the 60's and the mindset of many who elevate the 60's as some guiding paradigm.
Regarding the boycotts, as far as I can tell many attempts in the past decade have been more focused on elevating the opportunistic organizer than true consumer activism.
I agree with your point about Detroit (although I'm not quite sure how much the product has improved). It's about the opening of markets, removing barriers to entry and excessive tariffs, and letting competitive market forces drive producers to improve products.
I still think it is in nudism's best interest to focus on increasing demand in general. Clubs/resorts will charge and provide the level of service that the market will bear. Increase the opportunity for them to make money and they will.
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capecodjack
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/01/2008 : 10:09:47 PM
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reply to northeastUSA. On Cape Cod there is a land club that has a nice facility but not really plush. Sandy Terraces is a member maintained facility that has basic amenities: small beach on pond, club house, tennis courts, volley ball spread, etc. They have a web site
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Warmskin
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/03/2008 : 04:28:11 AM
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The ones I have been to seem reasonably priced considering all the work that goes on to maintain a resort. One of them in particular, Laguna Del Sol, charges $25 a day, and $6 for overnight camping. That's only $31. That's fairly good for all you get. If you become a associate member, and go there, you pay only $12 a day, $6 for camping, and then only $6 for the next day. 250 acres for that small fee. Unlike Holiday Inn, you get the privilege of going around in the nude. That's even more for the money!!
The point in the previous messages are good to think of. Demand and supply can not be avoided. There is not much supply, but a good demand. That makes prices go up, because you cannot have a large number of nudist resorts, so it compacts the resort users into a relative few places.
If there were thousands of nudist resorts in the USA, prices would go down, although that might allow for new nudists, if the price were lowered. As it is, nudist resorts are quite the niche in the marketplace. I.e., you take what you can get, and be thankful for that. It's not necessarily a comfortable answer, but it does offer some insight, hopefully.
That government governs best, which governs least - Thomas Jefferson
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Country: USA
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RobRoy
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/08/2008 : 5:03:58 PM
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I have a bit of insider information on the reason that Nudist Resorts are a bit more expensive than textile establishments. I serve on the Board of Directors of a nudist resort. The reality is there is less possible customers to draw from than a textile resort. I think you will find that most resorts are squeaking by.
Naturally,
Rob Roy
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islandman
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Posted - 09/26/2008 : 6:31:47 PM
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My wife and I have been to nudist resorts in Georgia and Florida. As has been written, we can't go nude at the Holiday Inn. The Holiday Inn, however, does not charge us once to use the room and then again to use the pool and other facilities. We do not live close enought to a nudist resort to become a member so we visit on a per day basis. I resent having to pay $30 to use the pool when I have paid market prices (or more) for the room.
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/28/2008 : 10:13:55 PM
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When I posed the question about being dissed at nudist resorts, I was thinking about value for money. However, it is more than that. It revolves around respecting your guests at nudist resorts. I stayed at a naturist resort this summer in France. It was easily the worst place I stayed in due primarily to the really bad management and the complete contempt that guests were treated to by the manager. As well, there was the matter of getting a bad deal for our hard-earned vacation dollars. Some of us here state that because the naturist market is so small, it means that operators have higher costs which have to be passed on to the consumers. However, there is the law of supply and demand - if demand is low the cost of the service drops. Just look at the housing market these days. Therefore, they should be competitive on price.
Costs don't factor in the issue of treating guests with respect. In France I didn't get respect. That was also true for Club Orient in St. Martin. I wasn't alone in that regard. That was wrong. I think that any place that doesn't treat you with respect doesn't deserve to get your business.
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go n nude
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/29/2008 : 04:33:44 AM
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Ajo127 i can see your point indeed, mangement treating guests poorly, and taking their money is not what one would enjoy at all. Hard earned vacation dollars don't come easy so true, maybe a hint of discrimmanation or just plain ignorance,it would surely "DIS" anyone and no one would want that kind of treatment, and if these resorts are treating the masses like this, it will backfire surely or on complaint, a wake up call that employees are treating guests poorly, and someone should be terminated possibly or repremanded,I would let these resorts know my dismay and disappoint in writeing they may not know who's hurting their business maybe.
go n nude
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Naturist Resorts - are you being dissed?
