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RobRoy
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Posted - 10/05/2008 : 07:24:58 AM
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Comparing a Holiday Inn to a nudist resort is apples to oranges. Holiday Inns have occupancy all week long, while most nudist resorts outside of Florida, are basically weekend operations. This accounts for the costs. You have to make a week of revenue in on a weekend.
As for nice nudist resorts in the North East, try Avalon in West Virginia. Yeah, it is a tad south of the NE, but we have people who come from Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey aside from the more nearby states. For you budget minded folk, in the colder months, the rates drop, but the indoor pool is a tropical paradise.
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Ranger191
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 Posted - 10/05/2008 : 1:29:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AJ0127
I think that any place that doesn't treat you with respect doesn't deserve to get your business.
AJ0127, I don't think you'll get any argument on that statement, but I also think that its on the consumer to request the level of service they want. Most of the time my request works, sometimes it doesn't. In almost every case I can think of, a reason for or against my request is offered by the management.
The most powerful thing you can do, you're already doing and that is spreading the word of unsatisfactory service. You don't mention what you did at the time of the unsatisfactory service but that's really immaterial now, that moment has gone. Many people have had positive experiences at the places you mention, some have not. It all depends on the expectations of the customer has when the customer arrives at their destination.
I would also be upset by the service as you described it from France. But by your posts, I have to say you've made your feeling clear on how you'll approach that same resort in the future. (You won't )
The only thing that I really take offense at is this: While you've softened your stance from your initial posts, you're still advocating a group action that will ultimately harm ALL the places that offer nude recreation. The fact of the matter is this: It is going to cost more to have nude recreation until and unless Main Street USA/World decides that clothes aren't necessary to live.
If you don't want to pay more to socialize in a different environment, well..., that is truly a shame but, it is your choice to vote with your hard in dollars. You are articulate, intelligent and can make your points clear. It seems to me that you'd be a good conversationalist, which to me is the main point of having these places.
Nobility is not a birthright, it is defined by one's actions.
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/05/2008 : 4:29:00 PM
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Ranger:
I don't take offense to other people's posts. However, I do reserve the right to disagree with them. As for the boycott option, I can see your concern. However, I do think that as business people, nudist resort owners will provide better service at reasonable prices if they face a loss of business. That's the charm of capitalist competition.
Sometimes there may be a case made for higher prices. However, for resorts which don't charge membership fees and rely on tourism like the textile resorts, I do have a problem with their pricing policies. They tend to think that the clientele is desperate enough to put up with inflated prices and slipshod service. Naturists shouldn't have to put up with that stuff.
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Country: Canada
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mrthrifty
New Member
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Posted - 10/12/2008 : 8:06:59 PM
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We, that is, myself, my wife and our two sons, would have been more active nudists in the past years if the elitist landed clubs were not so greedy with membership fees and "ground fees". It is stupid for us to go camping au natural, as we would like to do, and pay a hefty premium just so we can be nude when we can just keep our pants on and pay a fraction to camp at a KOA or state or county park campground. Paying an extra $46 for adult "ground fees" just isn't in our budget-- even in more cheery economic times. Oh, we did do it at Cypress Cove and another place once, but we felt totally ripped off and vowed to never again buy into this "pay-thru the nose" to be nude philosophy. It is certainly American capitalism at its greasy best, but it just isn't for us.
Being nude IS free, where prying eyes of dissent can't see. We're lucky because we have a house and backyard and a nice fence from Home Depot. We live a mere 90 minutes from one of the best nude beaches in the US (Haulover Beach). We haven't been there lately mainly because the boys are getting older and are slowly growing out of the nude childhood phase. So, we stay nudists in our backyard and our little pool, and we make an occassional trip to Haulover Beach once every few years it seems, but that's it.
Paying $23 per adult in ground fees just to run around without our clothes is just too damned capitalistic. Sure the poor clubs have bills and taxes, but so do other campgrounds that don't charge the "ground fees". The nude places aren't promoting a "lifestyle", they are just shilling for their own wallets. Frankly I don't feel as if we have really missed a thing by not going to the clubs and campgrounds. Being nude is a happy happenstance and coincidence of good fortune, not something to buy and pay a premium for. I keep seeing all this plaintive talk about how more young people need to join the nude "movement". Well, it is just empty talk. All the clubs want is well-monied people. To hell with them.
We are going camping in Spring and Summer 2009 and I have looked, like other years, at possible places to camp. I have e-mailed requests to some camps/resorts (we camp) for free or discount vouchers, but I've had little success and my entreaties meet with little sympathy. So, we will stay away and go elsewhere like we did in the past. These nude places aren't set up to handle volume traffic anyway. They want a small devoted following and aren't willing to spare a dime to attract potential repeat customers.
I just wonder how many more people would flock thru the gates if the clubs were reasonable in their pricing?
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zarnill
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Posted - 10/14/2008 : 9:36:27 PM
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[/quote]
AJ0127 - sorry you've had some bad experiences, but maybe as a child of the 60's you have a bit of entitlement mentality. Boycotts just don't work. Instead of boycotting the very limited number of resorts we have, we should be trying to educate society and normalize nudism thus increasing the demand for more resorts and clubs. The free market works every time it's tired. Get the government out of the way, and let the people's demand drive products.
I wasn't alive in the 60's so I can't really speak to the actual impact it had, but as far as I can tell, the 60s is much more romanticized by the Boomers who are currently running the show, than the true cultural impact it had. I suspect that most children of the 60s did what everybody else does. Go to college, get a job, start a family, get a mortgage, then work hard all their life to pay that mortgage and retire with some dignity.
Sorry for the rant, talk of the 60s always leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. It spawned the self-indulgent 70s and the it's all about Me Me Me....80s. In it's dust it left a legacy of epidemic number of divorces and sense of entitlement. As well as an entire generation of young people looking at the media manufactured ideals of the 60s leading them to believe interrupting lectures on a college campus is their 1st amendment right. You know the whole "Free Speech for me, Not for Thee" attitude.
[/quote]
I was a kid in the 60's and 70's and have to agree with this post. .. but on topic ..
Yes, nude resorts have higher costs: more security, usually a screening person, more fences, and a few other expenses.
Yes, nude resorts have less revenue opportunity (thought there is plenty to live off of obviously). They cannot simply open the doors to everyone or it would not be a nude resort anymore. So volumes are less, and opportunities more limited.
Unfortunately, as small businesses there is sometimes a lack of professional knowledge of hotel and restaurant management that causes costs to be higher and revenue lower and service to appear somewhat 'shoddy'.
But this is NOT in all cases. Some places are just run better than others just like any other business.
I will pay a bit more to go to a resort that is protected and fun. I will NOT pay a ton more and go to an all inclusive resort and subsidize heavy drinkers etc....
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nude charles
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Posted - 10/15/2008 : 8:51:02 PM
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Picking a nudist resort to your total liking is not easy. You should start with the AANR List of Clubs; or alternately, go to aanr.com and you can see resorts listed by state. You can then google for the resort you are interested. In the northeast, you may be interested in the one on Cape Cod (I've heard good things about it) or there is one in the Berkshires but I haven't been there.
Then there is White Thorn Lodge in Western PA. I was there for a week. Long walks. Approx 625 mi from Boston. Lots of volleyball courts and tennis courts. Huge tournament early Sep.
If you wish FL, there is a nudist resort in every price range, because it is literally the nudist capital in America.
There is also the World Guide to Nude Recreation; available for approx. $25.
Hope this helps. I have more info if you wish.
Best regards, nude charles.
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PeterRiden
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/08/2008 : 3:58:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AJ0127
[quote]
....Seriously, my main concern was that we as naturists are being over-charged for the privilege of going nude. So far, it appears that I am right. Can we start a consumer boycott of any resort that treats us shabbily?
This one from Allen just caught my attention but it is the fundamental from differences in prices when it comes to admission to any and all Nude-related-acceptance on their grounds.
Freedom is never free.
Now, when one thinks he's "over-charged" for having the unique privilege to be in an environment where one can be nude if one wishes, without having to worry about being picked up for indecency, then I'll just say "Go to a campground, resort or any other destination that prohibs nudity and try walking nude." It will not take you long to realize that being able to do so is a rather unique privilege and it has its own cost. Again, Freedom is never free but, for the little extra in cost, it is worth contributing to have and maintain zones/areas where such freedom to be nude can be exercised. It comes with a price and with all the tightening of social freedom that takes place everywhere, one should appreciate that for a little extra such destinations do still exist in a more uptightening world.
Some have rightly observed it's an all different dynamic when it comes to clothing optional environments and, because of the continued challenges it steadily presents, there need to be financial related support to continue to operate and offer such. The owners, not the patrons, are usually the ones who face the aggravations to confront the lurking enemies of such freedom on a nearly daily basis.
Think about it when it comes to talk about feeling "over-charged". Go stroll NUDE in any other destination that prohibs nudity and let us know about those "surcharges".
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.com
{TGB Conceptor}: http://www.the-grand-barn.com
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Country: Canada
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/09/2008 : 09:10:16 AM
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quote:
Freedom is never free.
Now, when one thinks he's "over-charged" for having the unique privilege to be in an environment where one can be nude if one wishes, without having to worry about being picked up for indecency, then I'll just say "Go to a campground, resort or any other destination that prohibs nudity and try walking nude." It will not take you long to realize that being able to do so is a rather unique privilege and it has its own cost.
Let's see if I have this right. Peter, as the owner of a clothing optional resort (well, perhaps resort would be a little misleading in the case of the Grand Barn), you feel that it's OK to charge more so that your guests have the "privilege" to go nude. I'm sure that self-interest has nothing to do with your argument. As for the Grand Barn - I remember that the Federation of Canadian Naturists cut all links to it a few years ago because of the alleged on-premises sexual activity.
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PeterRiden
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/09/2008 : 11:37:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AJ0127
quote:
Freedom is never free.
Now, when one thinks he's "over-charged" for having the unique privilege to be in an environment where one can be nude if one wishes, without having to worry about being picked up for indecency, then I'll just say "Go to a campground, resort or any other destination that prohibs nudity and try walking nude." It will not take you long to realize that being able to do so is a rather unique privilege and it has its own cost.
Let's see if I have this right. Peter, as the owner of a clothing optional resort (well, perhaps resort would be a little misleading in the case of the Grand Barn), you feel that it's OK to charge more so that your guests have the "privilege" to go nude. I'm sure that self-interest has nothing to do with your argument. As for the Grand Barn - I remember that the Federation of Canadian Naturists cut all links to it a few years ago because of the alleged on-premises sexual activity.
Not much of an answer to what I posted but I believe it gives you an opportunity to confirm you were one who assisted in the allegations directed at THE GRAND BARN. More so, I doubt that any related environment doesn't have "on-premises sexual activity" as it would be implying that all adults, even in the confine of thier own quarters, would be practicing "celibacy". If it happens at TGB... I have no issues/problems with it. It's pure adult functionality. Negating this would be negating reality.
But let's get back to your "Can we start a consumer boycott of any resort that treats us shabbily? "
"Shabbily"... hmm... that sounds distressed if not distressing.
Again, in case you'd want to avoid the real issue, I'd kindly ask you again to "Go stroll NUDE in any other destination that prohibs nudity and let us know about those "surcharges".
And when one mentions "self-interest", I'm as sure as you, demanding lower admission charges at related clubs/resorts/destinations, that it has nothing to do with you, only pure altruism.
I'd love you to come back and tell us all you went at a campground, resort or any other destination that prohibs nudity and tried walking nude and what happened to you, Allen.
I'm sure many will be eagerly waiting for your report on that. It might help better understand what the owners have to stand up for to provide this unique privilege to their friend visitors.
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.com
{TGB Conceptor}: http://www.the-grand-barn.com
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/09/2008 : 11:54:41 AM
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Peter:
I had nothing to do with any of the allegations. I've never visited your facility nor am I even a member of FCN. I saw the allegations on line and therefore, I referred to them as "alleged" sexual activity. The naturists here should know what your facility is all about. Personally, I don't care whether you condone public sex or not, provided that minors are not admitted.
As for the rest of your post - you have confirmed my suspicion that we are paying a premium for nudity. Should we pay extra for the "privilege" of being nude? Your answer is yes (and you get to keep the extra money). My answer is no. I think that we should pay market rates that provide a reasonable return for the resort owners.
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hernandocpl
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/10/2008 : 12:45:21 PM
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when we were touring the USA in our RV several years ago, we thought we would take a weeks break at a club, so went to Blebonnet in TX, (as we were on the way from C Cristi to Denver). We asked about prices..........they were ridiculous. $25 a day for the RV AND then they wanted another $35 a day for grounds fees. I asked what do we get for the $25, electricity, water and sewage..OK thats fine...use of the bathrooms, etc. So what do I get for the $35 grounds fee, use of the park, (but I get that from my RV fee), bathrooms, (but I again get that from my RV fee)..etc. Get the drift, they wanted a double whammy. I asked how full they were. "Oh we are quite empty".
Go figure!
Live love and have fun
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Country: USA
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TheWhiteCockatoo
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/10/2008 : 11:12:49 PM
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I don't believe for a single second that Peter Riden is charging a premium simply because his business caters for Nudists 
I believe Peter is charging a fair market rate for the facilities and services he provides, and looking from far downunder it appears possibly even more than fair
Just like us 
Which begs the question: Why should Nudists have to pay less than mainstream tourists for comfortable holiday accommodation?
They shouldn't and they don't at The White Cockatoo! 
I actually have some strongly held views on Nudists being ripped off, which is mostly the norm here in Oz with the exception of a few businesses, most notably The White Cockatoo and River Island, and have a special "Compare" page shown on our website 
Funnily enough the 1st question I ask on our "Compare" page is: Why should Nudists have to pay more than mainstream tourists for comfortable holiday accommodation?
To which I answer: You shouldn't and you don't at The White Cockatoo! 
Reality is Absolutely Nothing In Life Is Free... and to think so is completely out of touch with reality! 
Like it or not we live in a user pays society, no matter where in the world we might be 
I invite all to have a look at a view, which I'm sure is applicable world over, that I have: http://www.thewhitecockatoo.com/Compare.html
Please keep in mind that I am talking about fully registered and legitimate businesses, compared to someones bare dressed up backyard... There are differences 
Both The White Cockatoo and The Grand Barn are Far From "Fly By Night" Enterprises. They are both legitimate enterprises, albeit with obvious differences, but both businesses with all the excessive costs associated 
It's an age old story... Think you can do it better? Absolutely nothin' stoppin' ya!!!
Regards
Tony Fox
Proprietor @ The White Cockatoo
Web : http://www.thewhitecockatoo.com
Email : info@thewhitecockatoo.com
Ph. +61 7 40982222
Fax. +61 7 40982221
9 Alchera Drive,
Mossman, Qld 4873,
Australia[/size=2]
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Country: Australia
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PeterRiden
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/11/2008 : 12:30:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheWhiteCockatoo
I don't believe for a single second that Peter Riden is charging a premium simply because his business caters for Nudists
I believe Peter is charging a fair market rate for the facilities and services he provides, and looking from far downunder it appears possibly even more than fair
Just like us
Which begs the question: Why should Nudists have to pay less than mainstream tourists for comfortable holiday accommodation?
They shouldn't and they don't at The White Cockatoo!
I actually have some strongly held views on Nudists being ripped off, which is mostly the norm here in Oz with the exception of a few businesses, most notably The White Cockatoo and River Island, and have a special "Compare" page shown on our website
Funnily enough the 1st question I ask on our "Compare" page is: Why should Nudists have to pay more than mainstream tourists for comfortable holiday accommodation?
To which I answer: You shouldn't and you don't at The White Cockatoo!
Reality is Absolutely Nothing In Life Is Free... and to think so is completely out of touch with reality!
Like it or not we live in a user pays society, no matter where in the world we might be
I invite all to have a look at a view, which I'm sure is applicable world over, that I have: http://www.thewhitecockatoo.com/Compare.html
Please keep in mind that I am talking about fully registered and legitimate businesses, compared to someones bare dressed up backyard... There are differences
Both The White Cockatoo and The Grand Barn are Far From "Fly By Night" Enterprises. They are both legitimate enterprises, albeit with obvious differences, but both businesses with all the excessive costs associated
It's an age old story... Think you can do it better? Absolutely nothin' stoppin' ya!!!
Regards
Tony Fox
Proprietor @ The White Cockatoo
Web : http://www.thewhitecockatoo.com
Email : info@thewhitecockatoo.com
Ph. +61 7 40982222
Fax. +61 7 40982221
9 Alchera Drive,
Mossman, Qld 4873,
Australia[/size=2]
Very well presented, Tony.
And yes, we've both been around for definitely over 5 years and more  so if we're still around it's certainly that we've had and still have those kind and freindly people who show us great support and understand the dynamics we've clearly both expressed in our posts.
By the way.. what you present on your fine website is most interesting, Tony, and I invite anyone to go beyond mere rumors and give both our destinations a genuine restful visit.
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.com
{TGB Conceptor}: http://www.the-grand-barn.com
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Country: Canada
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TheWhiteCockatoo
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/11/2008 : 03:04:11 AM
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Thanks Peter,
Especially when we're being "dissed" in other threads yet the attackers last message said: quote "I did do some research about your resort, I mean, if your resort is not "caravans by the river," don't you think it would have been better to chuckle to yourself and think "They'll be pleasantly surprised when they arrive at White Cockatoo?"
We also believed the prices quoted and the inclusions make it potentially excellent value for money, irrespective of whether it's March or not." unquote
Can't avoid the cross-posting with that one!
Tony
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Country: Australia
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/11/2008 : 8:12:48 PM
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TheWhiteCockatoo
I haven't been to your resort. Perhaps one day, I will. Peter Riden has said here that we should pay a premium for the "privilege" of going nude. I demurred. I figure that naturist resort operators who treat their guests comparably to those at textile resorts will promote naturism and still make a profit. People like Peter want us to pay a premium and thereby discourage the growth of naturism. I'm not impressed with his arguments.
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Naturist Resorts - are you being dissed?
