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Phydeau
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/10/2008 : 3:28:45 PM
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Thanks for the new threads, Admin. I fear there may have been an unduly short tone to my post. I was reading in a hurry (skipping the rest of the page), and I had conversations coming from outside NRO, which didn't mention that the ban was temporary.
Looking forward to what people have to say and hoping everyone realizes that SUN and AANR are both the good guys in the big picture.
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Country: USA
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Admin
Forum Admin
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 Posted - 10/10/2008 : 5:28:33 PM
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Thanks johninfla. I was sure there were others out there that understood these issues. It's nice to hear from another sysop.
That's okay Phydeau, this political stuff can be irritating! Maybe we'll get some good comments in the other threads.
We at this forum are looking for intelligent, reasonable and worldly nudists to help promote nudism as it really is, for families and adults alike.
Anyone missing the banned members are invited to go and find where they are currently posting and support their efforts there.
Members, how many feel we should purge this forum of the judgmental hypocrites, hatemongers and troublemakers? We could remove more of them if enough agree it will make for a better community, but we need feedback on this. There is evidence our forum has gained a reputation as that of a hateful, unwelcoming and judgmental atmosphere. Because of this, we're getting pretty tired of this destructive family-or-nothing attitude. Adults have a right to nude recreation as well, where it isn't modeled for children 24/7.
Those that can't support a diversity of interests in nudism, for both adults and families, should leave this forum without delay.
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Country: USA
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Phydeau
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 04:07:49 AM
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quote:
Members, how many feel we should purge this forum of the judgmental hypocrites, hatemongers and troublemakers? We could remove more of them if enough agree it will make for a better community, but we need feedback on this. There is evidence our forum has gained a reputation as that of a hateful, unwelcoming and judgmental atmosphere. Because of this, we're getting pretty tired of this destructive family-or-nothing attitude. Adults have a right to nude recreation as well, where it isn't modeled for children 24/7.
Those that can't support a diversity of interests in nudism, for both adults and families, should leave this forum without delay.
While I agree with the second paragraph, the first causes me some concern. That may sound conflicting, but it's not.
I actually want to hear the conflicting points of view, but I don't want to hear a call to arms to forcibly remove dissidents. Maintain the peace, if necessary, of course. But let people vent to a reasonable degree.
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Country: USA
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 08:01:55 AM
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Yesterday President Bush announced, "...the Securities and Exchange Commission has launched rigorous enforcement actions to detect fraud and manipulation in the market. The SEC is focused on preventing abusive practices, such as putting out false information to drive down particular stocks for personal gain. Anyone caught engaging in illegal financial activities will be prosecuted."
If this practice of driving down the value of a business through putting out false information is illegal in law, why would we allow even one bit of that here? In both cases the abusive practice occurs in online forums such as this one. We have identified the culprits, those that spread uncertainty and doubt regarding certain resorts they do not approve of, and usually have never actually visited.
The efforts of these abusers have been effective. There is evidence from many sources that this forum is a major source of this doubt and uncertainty. We have read examples of people that were interested in - - for example, but upon reading this forum came away with a feeling that this location was not worthy of a visit.
We are not targeting dissidents, or those with differing opinions. Without a variety of viewpoints, this forum would have no authenticity. There is a vast difference between carefully articulating your first-person experiences versus spreading doubt and uncertainty through nebulous and negative comments.
We are the champion for free choice among those establishments that support a no-open-sex rule, whether or not they cater to families exclusively. It has been our stated policy since day one, and this will not change, despite some personal agendas among members.
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Country: USA
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jw1
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 08:17:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
Members, how many feel we should purge this forum of the judgmental hypocrites, hatemongers and troublemakers? We could remove more of them if enough agree it will make for a better community, but we need feedback on this. There is evidence our forum has gained a reputation as that of a hateful, unwelcoming and judgmental atmosphere. Because of this, we're getting pretty tired of this destructive family-or-nothing attitude. Adults have a right to nude recreation as well, where it isn't modeled for children 24/7.
Those that can't support a diversity of interests in nudism, for both adults and families, should leave this forum without delay.
I have encountered Melissa before with other groups and my impression is that she is not a hatemonger or troublemaker. Her post seemed sincere to me. The moderators response struck me as an overreaction.
Cheri is obviously well-known within the nudist community and clearly has a lot to offer to someone seeking information about family-friendly nudist environments.
The reality is that there is a large divide between the AANR purist types and the people who may enjoy a more adult atmosphere. Personally, I enjoy the more adult environment, but can respect the rules and norms of whatever nudist environment I am in whether it be a no-touch public beach/resort to a Hedo-type resort. Shouldn't that be the guideline for all of us ? It is unfortunate that the AANR purist types can't respect those of us who want a more adult environment at times. It seems to me that those of us who enjoy nude recreation should be banding together as opposed to the purists who think that their way is the only way.
For the record, I have never met either one of the women in question.
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Edited by - jw1 on 10/11/2008 08:51:27 AM |
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1inamillion
New Member
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 2:37:40 PM
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I, for one, thank you for this. I mostly read and don't post, but the few times I did post, it was about - -, as I had been planning a trip there. Several times, I got replies like, "Don't go there, I heard....." I didn't want the "I heard", I wanted first hand experience. Since I am new to the world of nudism, I rely on peoples experiences.
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Country: USA
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go n nude
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 2:39:00 PM
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AANR purist types, or those who don't really think sexism has any voice that they will accept or respect. They do respect your choice, do they care what happens to this lifestyle and if Resorts choose other than wholesome family friendly, why you be affended. They don't tell anyone how to live their adult environment either, just don't bash Members of the AANR or the forum and resorts or banding on common ground for nude recreation,blame games can or will be destructive .
go n nude
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Country: Canada
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inudist
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:22:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
Members, how many feel we should purge this forum of the judgmental hypocrites, hatemongers and troublemakers? We could remove more of them if enough agree it will make for a better community, but we need feedback on this. There is evidence our forum has gained a reputation as that of a hateful, unwelcoming and judgmental atmosphere. Because of this, we're getting pretty tired of this destructive family-or-nothing attitude. Adults have a right to nude recreation as well, where it isn't modeled for children 24/7.
Enough is enough. No one you have "banned" has ever used language like this. I'm done here.
Goodbye.
inudist
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Country: USA
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FlCpl4NewdFun
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 8:14:21 PM
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inudist:
I'm sure you are aware that a recommended link on your own personal webpage is www.internationalnudist.com
I'm also sure you fully vetted that organization prior to recommending that site being that it is loaded with links to adult oriented content right on the front page such as links to:
Femdom nudists
Streaking the world - Which I'm sure AANR would frown on crazy people exposing themselves for shock value without regard to children being present or others that didn't choose to see that.
More websites than I can possibly mention that make their money selling pictures of naked strangers - No worries though, I'm sure those who purchase the DVDs only have educational or research interests.
USAnudist - which has a banner link to a porn site on its home page
And my favorite NetNude which has a banner add to a swingers resort on its homepage.
And what is so classic is most of those webpages have links to AANR! Go figure. So I guess your OK with being 2 or three 3 clicks away from swinging and porn sites. But since - - was expected to be able to control content two clicks away it's only fair your site should as well.
And for the record, I'll take the language above over a nudist femdom site or those that make their living off sell DVDs of naked strangers. But I guess that's just me!
Cheers!
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Edited by - FlCpl4NewdFun on 10/12/2008 07:13:59 AM |
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jim19452
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/12/2008 : 12:24:52 PM
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admin wrote: "Members, how many feel we should purge this forum of the judgmental hypocrites, hatemongers and troublemakers? We could remove more of them if enough agree it will make for a better community, but we need feedback on this. There is evidence our forum has gained a reputation as that of a hateful, unwelcoming and judgmental atmosphere. Because of this, we're getting pretty tired of this destructive family-or-nothing attitude. Adults have a right to nude recreation as well, where it isn't modeled for children 24/7."
I've read numerous post by Melissa. Her posts cannot be characterized as "judgmental hypocrites, hatemongers and troublemakers" by anyone other than a hypocritical hatemonger.
Some of Cheri's remarks are critical of other's positions. So what? She added diversity and was a valuable resource for this site.
Best Wishes, Jim
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Country: USA
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Phydeau
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/13/2008 : 03:34:24 AM
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By now, I'm clearly off-topic, but so is the entire thread, So . . . sorry?
GUYS! We're debating so many issues!
We're talking about Swinging, and normal PDAs, and G-rated, Disney-esque behavior.
I think everyone agrees that adults can behave like adults, so get back to the original topic of resort bashing.
Start a new thread if you think it needs further discussion.
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Country: USA
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 10/13/2008 : 09:53:29 AM
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Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :
hatemonger n.
one who arouses hatred for others by speech or writing.
Dictionary at Answers.com:
hatemonger n.
One who incites others to hatred or prejudice.
yourdictionary.com:
hate·mon·ger (noun)
a propagandist who seeks to provoke hatred and prejudice, esp. against a minority group or groups
urbandictionary.com:
hate monger
1.) A person who uses political beliefs or passions of any kind as a platform to express their hatred for another individual.
2.) A media personality who spreads hate under the guise of a political affiliation or a religious belief.
Those are great definitions, but now to apply them to our situation.
The best method to spread your hatred of a particular resort is to constantly remind others of your disdain, but steadfastly refuse to include your reasons for the benefit of those that might disagree.
For instance, "I'm not sure I want to support and be a part of a site that so strongly promotes a club that I wouldn't recommend to any of my family members" is an excellent example. Why wouldn't the poster recommend this destination? That detail is withheld, so no intelligent person could argue, and those without more details will make a summary judgment against the resort. It is the essential method of hate mongering, which is forbidden here at NRO.
It is a method of casting a repetitive and consistently negative light on your object of hatred while withholding your reasons in order to shut off any reasonable discourse that may follow.
In this form of hate mongering, it doesn't matter if the poster is basing their criticism entirely on hearsay, and that they have never actually visited the resort.
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Country: USA
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 10/13/2008 : 10:37:53 AM
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It seems it may be best to clarify our reasons for banning some members in late September 2008.
In order not to reflect negatively on any individual's reputation, we are careful to provide the exact policy in effect, along with clear examples of the offense in question. We do not want anyone to begin to hate these individuals, but only to show disdain for the particular acts they have committed against this forum and against the resorts we have chosen to support.
Cheri has been a hard worker for family-only nudism for as long as we can remember. Many have expressed their appreciation for her ever present opinions on everything related to family nudism. She has provided assistance to thousands of people in this regard, and she is appreciated by this organization for that reason and others. However, such a dominant media personality must exercise restraint regarding segments of the nude recreation industry they would disagree with. Any form of hate mongering from such an individual would have a greater effect, and thus greater harm. Cheri's contributions to this forum has been considerably helpful, but also considerably damaging due to her tight alignment with the AANR's 'our way or no way' policy. Because of her tendency to promote hatred of anything not designed exclusively for families, her posts will have to be monitored carefully by this organization for any form of hate mongering, should she choose to remain after the expiration of her ban.
As regards Melissa, we don't know if her sole intent was to see what we will tolerate, but she should have known not to bait us into a response. To enter this forum and post within the section called Web Site Statement of Policies, stating that this organization "seems" to promote hatred of people promoting family friendly nudism, is just as bad as stating we are racist without providing the proof. It either case, the handling would be the same.
We refer the reader to the post again, on page 2 of this thread. Framing everything in "I feel" or "it seems" language without providing examples does not magically exempt the poster from disciplinary action. The smear tactics used in the first paragraph are equivalent to someone saying, "I have a feeling, based on what Melissa has said and responded to. It seems that children require daily corporal punishment. In fact, she believes children la la la ..." Any such post without clear and indisputable examples would be, in our view, pure hate mongering.
To make matters worse, not only were the statements made intended to confuse the public as to our true policies, but they were posted in the very thread where they could create the most confusion. This is why this section is set to moderate each and every post, in order to stop any such underhanded attacks. It was perhaps a mistake to allow anyone to post in this Policy thread.
So with a heavy dose of NRO bashing, and some - - bashing thrown in for good measure, while inserting this into the very thread where we are explaining how resort bashing is prohibited, Melissa should have known what our response would be. If she had provided examples in order to support a fair and balanced discussion the outcome may have been different in her case.
The Society for Understanding Nudism supports family friendly nudism. Anyone doubting this should review the thousands of posts here over the last 7 years from Admin and tens of thousands of members. However, SUN has had to fight for some fairness and tolerance of those destinations that are not under the AANR umbrella for whatever reason. If a resort enforces a no-open-sex rule, provides a satisfactory nude experience for the non-swinger, and is not deceptive in its advertising, that resort will be represented in our catalog and protected from malicious online attacks, whether or not it caters exclusively to families.
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Country: USA
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balataf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/13/2008 : 4:39:36 PM
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What is the duration of this administrative banning?
Somewhow, these actions that were criticized do not quite fit my image of "hate-mongering" very well. While I can see Admin's point, at least in reference to Cheri, I rather doubt that the objectioned postings were worth this amount of fuss.
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Country: USA
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jim19452
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/13/2008 : 6:08:17 PM
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" Because of her tendency to promote hatred of anything not designed exclusively for families, her posts will have to be monitored carefully by this organization for any form of hate mongering, should she choose to remain after the expiration of her ban."
You are some kind of a fool. By your defintion YOU are promoting hatred for Cheri. Cheri promotes civility some will find too extreme. At times, so do I. Strive to be adult Admin. I can handle it, doesn't seem you can.
"As regards Melissa, we don't know if her sole intent was to see what we will tolerate, but she should have known not to bait us into a response. To enter this forum and post within the section called Web Site Statement of Policies, stating that this organization "seems" to promote hatred of people promoting family friendly nudism, is just as bad as stating we are racist without providing the proof. It either case, the handling would be the same."
"Seems" is an evaluation and a mild one. Your evaluation is less mild, "Seems" almost hateful to me.
This site has grown by leaps and bounds while Cheri and Melissa were contributing knowledgable, entertaining and thoughtful comments. Do you deny this? Yes or no.
Best Wishes, Jim
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Country: USA
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Absolutely NO resort bashing - you'll be banned
