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Belisha
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 Posted - 10/27/2003 : 9:13:16 PM
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Not as original as I thought: See other thread
Sorry for duplication but feel free to respond if topic is new to you.
I do not ask this question in a leading or sexual sense, however I have taken the time to look through the last 12 months of topics raised on this site and felt it needed asking.
An old Girlfriend of mine used to love the fact that She could, within reason be as aroused as she wished without drawing attention to herself, whereas the men had to excercise an unusual degree of self control to ensure that they did not offend.
I am not aware of the standpoint taken in Canada or the USA; in the UK one could be dismissed from a club at the slightest hint of arousal.
Before you all jump on my neck (although you may well do so anyway) I would mention that I am now 30 and was raised as a naturist from 7 or 8 years and of course it is intimacy that produces arousal in most cases.
I do not raise this question for amusement but to address a central issue in the ethos of nudism: -
Do we accept that the naked body is beautiful in all its variety and forms?
Do we accept that nudity is perfectly natural and should not lead to immature sniggers or outcry?
Do we believe that any element of arousal whether male or female is intrinsically wrong and should be firmly opposed by all right thinking members of the naturist society?
Finally is arousal unnatural?
I have no axe to grind here, this is merely a question that has occured to me ever since I read the rules of my club as an adolescent and found that that prohibition conflicted in my mind with the remainder of the rules and most importantly with the spirit of naturism.
Once you have answered in your own mind the central question raised here ask yourself: What of a Man who falls asleep on a sunny day and awakes to find he is erect (it does happen you know)do you repremand him banish him or do you find yourself unconcerned. I appreciate that this is simply an extension of the central issue, but those of you who have come to the conclusion that such a thing should never be seen may have some slight cause to reconsider at this stage.
I look forward to your replies.
Kind regards
Belisha
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Edited by - Belisha on 10/27/2003 9:27:26 PM
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nudetoo
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Posted - 10/27/2003 : 11:12:03 PM
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First, if we are true nudist and accept the human body in any form then this should include the unexpected errection. To bannish one sex only should go aginst what we believe in, shouldn't it?
Second, what if a female set out too caused the arrousal? should the male be bannished and not the female?
I think it would be better for everyone to enjoy the day out in the sun, with nature as nature intended for us to be.
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Spontanudity
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 05:51:17 AM
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nudetoo,
One would assume that an adult male has some control over their sexual function. As mentioned in the last thread, its one of the key changes that takes place in the human body. In fact, I'll go further to say that its actually the brain that learns to control sexual function as opposed to the penis.
Many have worked hard to prove to textiles that naturism has NOTHING to do with sex. Seeing an erect penis on the beach is against all the core principles of naturism.
Spontanudity.
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Belisha
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 07:44:38 AM
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Not unexpectedly we have two conflicting views from two presumably geniune and sincere naturists. I personally believe that Willy's views are more valid and true to the spirit of naturism, but what do the rest of you think?
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Spontanudity
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 08:12:44 AM
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More valid on what basis?
Regardless of whether you are wearing clothes or not, overt sexual behaviour is generally unacceptable in most cultures, including Australia, US, UK, France, Spain, Thailand, Singapore, NZ. Why is a naturist beach/resort any different?
As I said previously a lot of people, worldwide, have done a lot to steer the small-minded opinion away from the idea that naturism is more about sex than the expression of freedom. A male displaying an erect penis is only proving these people right. This is overt sexual behaviour and, in fact, can be considered a criminal act in some countries.
As for the argument that a woman could cause the male to become aroused that is simply unbelievible and follows a similar line of thinking of a rapest that blames their victim for their criminal actions. If you get aroused by something you see on a clothed beach or nude beach its your responsibility to deal with it! Simple as that.
Naturism is an expression of freedom. Freedom for men, women and children to enjoy their nudity and nature free from sexually offensive behaviour.
Flame away.
Cheers,
Spontanudity
"Forever Naked"
http://groups.msn.com/YoungSydneyNaturists
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Belisha
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 09:05:01 AM
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Cheers Spontanudity
I do have to admit that I cringed a bit at the suggestion that provocation should be a Defence to the "Offence???" of having an erection.
It is your presumption that the mere existance of an erection is indicative of some inappropriate intent that I find a little hard to accept.
I strongly oppose the purported right of nudists to wander the streets naked because to do so is to disregard the fact that others may not share your attitudes and that your actions may result in offence or even harm to the unprepared. Furthermore such behaviour is an open invitation to those with a malign intent to behave badly. How do you legislate for a flasher in our society if naturists are given free reign?
You may well feel that the same point exists with regard to male arousal i.e. how does one differentiate between the benign and the malignant? I would suggest that in the arena of a naturist club, beach or resort the benign and the malignant erection (if such exists)(I have to laugh at my descriptions here! LOL, there that's better)should be treated no differently to an unerect member. After all in my mind it is far worse to have pseudo naturists with inappropriate views wandering around erect or not than to tolerate or even accept as normal and natural the odd erection.
As someone offered in the previous string; the eloquent double entendre "Boners happen". Being English it took my a while to realise that that was a double entendre!
I am enjoying the debate, and having reviewed the earlier string I do not feel that the issue is resolved at all as yet and I do think that it should be one way or another.
Kind regards to all
Belisha
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Belisha
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 09:27:38 AM
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Spontanudity
You have identified the crux of the matter and below is your, IMHO correct defenition of naturism: -
"Naturism is an expression of freedom. Freedom for men, women and children to enjoy their nudity and nature free from sexually offensive behaviour."
I just don't follow why an erection is per se "sexually offensive behaviour" however the situation arose if you will pardon the pun.
Regards once more
Belisha
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tucsonnude
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 09:29:21 AM
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Thank u spondanudity...there will always be the arguement of what is offnesive behavior and if an erection is overt sexual behavior. An erection can be spontanious as well if ur a teen. But as time goes on it becomes sexual. Agree on one thing the man should take control over his actions. Do his best to cover up or avoid the glance of others. As long as society, any society, sees an erection as sexual in nature and not just a reaction to stimuli then we need to take action. Then again how do we change the perception of others that arousal is natural. And as naturists/nudists we celebrate the natural. I just hope that we can accept others and see that sexual arousal is natural. No one should jump up and down over it but that it is natural. And not to give it a second glance.
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Cheri
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 09:31:08 AM
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I too agree with spontanudity.
Hugs, cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Belisha
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 09:38:30 AM
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Cheri
Could I ask you, given you evidently extensive involvement in naturism to provide a more detailed comment.
Other than the suggestion of a provocation "Defence" suggested by Willy which is misguided; on what points do you specifically disagree with me and why.
I am sorry to trouble you to this extent, but I know of no greater authority on the subject than you.
Thanks in anticipation
Belisha
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Spontanudity
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 09:38:57 AM
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One of great things (amongst others) about becoming an adult is that you've managed to survive the hormonal changes throughout puberty. One such "change" for men, is that you gain greater control over your sexual function. You learn to manage those embarassing urges which often come at the most inopportune times. With this control comes responsbility, we have a responsibilty to protect others from behaviour which _they_ may consider offensive and protect those with less social understanding (such as children). By not controlling these urges you are, quite simply, in breach of your social responsiblity.
Now onto your argument that an erection can occur without sexual "intent", i will not subscribe to your "malignant/benign" terminology as it suggests that an erection results from medical dysfunction, which for most this is not the case. For those people with a medical dysfunction that causes an uncontrollable erections this is a difficult issue. Much the same as textiles see a nude person and immediately associate what they see with sex. In response, genuine naturists act in a delibrate ways that do not present a sexual overtone, ie they sunbath, swim, play volley ball, tennis etc etc etc. A male with an erection who is taking action to prevent it (wet towel etc) or trying to hide it by rolling over onto their stomach will have greater respect to fellow naturists/textiles than those that are delibrately exhibiting the "natural" response to sexual arousal.
In the eyes of the law (in many countries), this is simply not a debatible topic... It is illegal! I'd be suprised if many courts would allow this type of behaviour to go unpunished. Of course, the major issue for many law inforcement agencies is evidence, particularly because the cowards who delibrately act in this manner are normally long-gone before police can take any action.
Cheers,
Spontanudity
"Forever Naked"
http://groups.msn.com/YoungSydneyNaturists
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Cheri
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 09:46:08 AM
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Spontanudity, In sociological research that I've done prior to offering lectures on the courses to which I speak, I have found most anthropoligists and sociologists equate the typical male arousal as an affront to the general population. This does not include the involuntary errections.
Erections are not acceptable in polite society. It's the same as being considerate of another's feelings. If first-time women were to attend a nudist venue and see a constant parade of male erections, she would not return.
I believe the human body in all shapes and sizes and colors is beautiful, but in an aroused state, even though beautiful, is not welcome.
You will find some who disagree, but I believe it to be the case.
Hugs, Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Edited by - Cheri on 10/28/2003 09:54:30 AM |
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Belisha
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 10:05:10 AM
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Spontanudity
I do feel you are being a little obtuse, perhaps with a view to pressing your opinion.
Of course adults gain a GREATER degree of control, that is a trite point and does not develop the argument one jot.
As to the Begnign/Malignant descriptions, I was clearly not referring to any form of mental disorder, as I believe you know well. I was attempting to differentiate between someone who gains excitement from so displaying themselves in whatever form and the person who mearly finds themselves having become aroused, thinks nothing of it and allows the situation to pass.
I recoil from your cover up and cringe philosophy, just as I would disapprove of a person "delibrately exhibiting the "natural" response to sexual arousal". To me a DELIBERATE display is of course sexually offensive and that is not what I am talking about here, but it cannot be right that a naturist should be obliged to slap a wet towel on himself or roll in the sand, that is not what we are about, are we?
I am not promoting the idea of commonly walking around with erections. Indeed the last time it happened to me I was around 13 in the sea off the French coast and as irrepresable as such things are at that age I found myself forced back into the Sea each time I approached the beach for a full three hours. I did not suffer from that experience, however, I query why anyone should go to the lengths you propose or indeed the lengths I took.
I don't mean to cause offence to you or anyone else on this site, but I was hoping for a constructive discussion rather than have the participants decend to absurd extremes to make their point, or express their view. In this regard I recommend to you the post by tucsonnude as a helpful addition to the topic.
Regards
Belisha
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Spontanudity
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 10:07:04 AM
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Cheri,
In 1994, I wrote an academic paper challenging the concepts of "voyeurism, exhibitionism and nudism". It focused social acceptance and explored the DSM-IV's definition of the first two terms (nudism has never been defined as a psychological dysfunction). I later challenged by own ideas in 1996 taking a more sociological approach. While the papers didn't necessarily discuss the topic of erections, it did explore sexual arousal within the nudist lifestyle. Much of my previous discussion on this topic has touched on some of these opinions developed from this research.
Have you published any academic articles on naturism?
Cheers,
Spontanudity
"Forever Naked"
http://groups.msn.com/YoungSydneyNaturists
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Cheri
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 10:15:08 AM
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Spontanudity, I am not published academically only in the general world.
I don't have a Ph.D.
:) Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Belisha
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Posted - 10/28/2003 : 10:15:32 AM
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Cheri
I read your post after typing the above message to spontanudity and I am surprised that you have become guilty of the same decent to extremes.
Sociological research ought to be used carefully. Of what relevance if the view of a survey of the population at large whan we are considering the attitude of a small minority of that population, who, we can reasonably expect to be more enlightened and liberated that the population at large.
Equaly you are the first to envisage a parade of erections. On what planet would that occur.
It is precicely the occasional involuntary erections we are addressing not not some hypothetical line up of "Boners".
The question I submit is: How should one behave in that event, is it nothing to worry about and proceed as you were or is it a case of duck and cover?
Yours respectfully
Belisha
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Where do you stand on Male Arousal?
