| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
|
 Posted - 02/16/2008 : 2:21:15 PM
|
In various threads we’ve had people (usually the same one’s over and over again) say or imply that certain types of people or groups of people “can’t” be nudists. Usually referring to swingers, exhibitionists, and voyeurs, or similar types of people. I would like to know why the frell not?
Why the frell can’t a swinger also be a nudist? Why do the two lifestyles have to exclude the other? Why can’t an exhibitionist or voyeur also be a nudist? As I said before IF you own a TV or go to the movies, guess what you’re a voyeur.
These same people are also quick to point out that if one thinks like this, or feels like this that they’re not “true” nudists. Or likewise IF one does this or that, that again they’re not “true” nudists. Who are they to say who or what a “true” nudist is or isn’t?
Also as I said I was talking with an on-line friend whom for whatever reason believes/feels/thinks that Wiccans can’t be nudists. Her “logic” is/was because nudity and/or sex is/can be an integral part of how they worship/practice. Again why the frell not? What makes the two incompatible?
Why can’t a person regardless of their lifestyle, who is also comfortable with their body or the human body in general also be a nudist. To me that has been the defining attribute of a nudist i.e. a person who is comfortable with their body. And doesn’t have the hang-ups that “most” people appear to have with going nude either at home alone, or in a social setting.
Let’s look at exhibitionists, who are at least on some level comfortable with their bodies. Yes, maybe for some of them it starts out being done for a thrill sexual or otherwise. But I’m sure that for some, they just feel the urge to be nude. And it’s just that they choose the wrong time/place to go nude.
Instead of condemning them, why can’t they be “rehabilitated” into a “true” nudist? Also instead of condemning them, wouldn’t it be better if a practicing nudist was to take ‘em under their wing and mentor them? And show them that with the current state of anti-nudity laws, that there is a right time and place for one to go nude. And that they’re not doing social nudism any favors by going nude at times or in places where it isn’t appropriate.
As I asked in one of the other threads why can’t there be room for different lifestyles to co-exist? Also as I said if one thinks about, and was confirmed there are “family friendly” hotels, resorts, amusement parks, etc. That have either knowingly or unknowingly hosted events, or parties that aren’t “family friendly.” Such as I'm sure some would say Disney’s gay pride parade. Does their hosting a gay pride event make them un-family friendly? Sadly in the eyes of some, the answer is yes.
Live Long and Prosper
Herman
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
|
|
Phydeau
Forum Member
|
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 05:04:29 AM
|
Digital_Cowboy! Good question!
And I used the exclamation points earnestly. Lifestyle is not the issue. It's all about perception, and the overlap thereof.
You asked why they have to be exclusive. They don't. In every way that Christianity, Republicanism, Scientology, numismaticism, or "Red-Hat-Societisism" have a hill of beens to do with nudism, the swingers only have skin in common.
"Prudists" don't make that distinction.
Let me make this clear, before this becomes another flame thread: Though I don't subscribe to the swinger lifestyle, I respect it.
However: most people don't.
This is why it's a problem.
The general public is on the verge of understanding the desire to be comfortable in one's own skin. Nudity is almost acceptable today. In a few decades, "nude beaches" might be a redundant phrase.
When it comes to spouse-sharing, we're not even close. The pairing of the two concepts could endanger nudism. I have no doubt that swingers are comfortable nude in front of others (in fact, I suspect it's a requirement) and many may also be "goody-two-shoes" nudists, at other times.
It's all about perception.
I agree that calling one's self a "true" nudist is kind of a misrepresentation. But there is a cause to enlighten people to be less uptight about real bodies, and deviant (and I use the term "deviant" in a non-pejorative sense) behavior is best left as an argument for another site.
It's a valid question, with its own issues. But at this point in history, it may be a bit too complex for the uninitiated.
Long answer short: Swingers are absolutely free to be nudists. It would be crazy to say otherwise. Just as it would be crazy to say that Libertarians couldn't be nudists.
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 214 |
 |
|
|
denmarkav
New Member
|
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 1:29:12 PM
|
Like I always tell my tell my children "If everyone liked vinnela there would not be any chochlet thanks Denny
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 8 |
|
|
|
Nudony
Forum Member
|
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 2:15:46 PM
|
I'll use a personal experience to make my point. I once introduced a co-worker to nudism; he seemed to show genuine interest in the nudist philosophy. However, I quickly noticed that his disposition to nudity seemed sexually driven; we talked about it, and I attempted to help him deal with his nudity=sex mindset. Long story short: that failed miserably; the "rehabilitation" angle did not work in this particular case. His voyeuristic impulses were deeply imbedded, and he proved completely incapable of simply enjoying nudity without giving in to his sexual impulses.
The moral of my story is that even though our perception, as Phydeau discussed, is an important element in dealing with "so-called-conflicting lifestyles"; the behavior displayed by voyeurs, exhibitionists and swingers is even more key. Can a swinger be a nudist? Absolutely, IMHO. But the reality is that for many swingers, social nudity is merely a prelude to sexual activity. And when that mindset is exerted in a behavioral manner in a social nudist setting, we have a conflict. My co-worker was quite blatant in his voyeurism; which was quite embarrassing for me. Had he been able to dissociate his sexual "deviancy" (and I'm using the term loosely) from nudity, the situation wouldn't have resulted in a fall-out. I'm not talking about repression here; I'm talking about understanding that staring up someone's backside is not nudism-friendly and actually quite disrespectul - period.
Another example: I once befriended an avowed exhibitionist at a nudist gathering. Actually, I was one of a very few people to befriend her, because most of the other people there seemed opposed to her presence. But the fact is; she was quite enjoyable to be around and even though she was occasionally a bit "in your face", she was never blatantly "overt" or disrespectful in her behavior. I found it a bit sad that the other nudists had turned their backs on her, due to their perception that the only reason she was there must have been for "sexual reasons." In this case, I would have to say that the nudists were at fault for passing judgement and not stopping to think that maybe she was there because she simply enjoyed nudism.
In conclusion, yes, a voyeur, exhibitionist or swinger can be a nudist. Even a white supremacist can be a nudist. As long as he/she doesn't start going around saying that only caucasians are worthy of being socially nude. You get my analogy.
|
|
Country:
| Posts: 504 |
|
|
|
Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
|
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 10:03:42 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Phydeau
Digital_Cowboy! Good question!
And I used the exclamation points earnestly. Lifestyle is not the issue. It’s all about perception, and the overlap thereof.
True, and sadly there will always be those who without ever actually researhing something will have an opinion on it. Sadly there’s no getting around that, except by trying to do our best to educate them.
quote:
You asked why they have to be exclusive. They don’t. In every way that Christianity, Republicanism, Scientology, numismaticism, or “Red-Hat-Societisism” have a hill of beens to do with nudism, the swingers only have skin in common.
"Prudists” don’t make that distinction.
Sadly true, but the way that some here talk reminds me of a poem from WWII:
quote:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
If we continue to turn our backs as it were on groups that some feel don’t represent nudism in a positive light, aren’t we as “guilty” as those who didn’t speak out when the Nazis’ started their purging?
Shouldn’t we be helping to stand up for their rights?
quote:
Let me make this clear, before this becomes another flame thread: Though I don’t subscribe to the swinger lifestyle, I respect it.
However: most people don’t.
At least your not afraid to admit it. And if what’s been reported on the news at different times. That there are more swingers in our neighborhoods, just as there are more nudists around then most “textiles” realize.
quote:
This is why it’s a problem.
The general public is on the verge of understanding the desire to be comfortable in one’s own skin. Nudity is almost acceptable today. In a few decades, “nude beaches” might be a redundant phrase.
What we need to do in order to make that day happen is to apply pressure on our elected officials to repeal anti-nudity laws. As well as passing laws that are nudist friendly. And if they don’t or won’t then we need to elect ones who will.
quote:
When it comes to spouse-sharing, we’re not even close. The pairing of the two concepts could endanger nudism. I have no doubt that swingers are comfortable nude in front of others (in fact, I suspect it’s a requirement) and many may also be “goody-two-shoes” nudists, at other times.
At least your able to admit/see that. We have a person here who seems to think that swingers are only comfortable being nude in a sexual environment.
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
|
|
|
Bare Warrior
Forum Member
|
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 3:08:12 PM
|
Very simply all the "types" you mentioned above have to do with sexual activity. Nudism or naturism has nothing to do with swinging, wife swapping, exhibitionism, voyerism, or monogamy. It has nothing to do with any sexual lifestyle. Period.
Bare Warrior
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 61 |
|
|
|
agde
Forum Member
|
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 7:20:53 PM
|
Let's be clear. Naturism is inclusive and respectful. All ages, genders, cultures, races, creeds, etc are welcome and should feel absolutely safe, comfortable and serene about not having to guard against intrusive behaviour. Naturism merely removes the social contrivance that clothing is needed, particularly in public, to assure personal dignity and interpersonal respect. Put the other way around, naturism affirms that normal social rules can and do apply regardless of attire. It is a pact of trust at least one notch above the norm.
Sexuality, in contrast, is restrictive and based on consensual intrusion. It is restricted to adults and is governed by distinct rules that differ considerably according to such things as an individual's upbringing, culture and creed. It is a distinct interpersonal activity involving complex rituals of adult personal consent, often driven by social status or power relationships, intrinsically linked to various adult combinations of physical gender, gender identity, and gender preference, and frequently reinforced by clothing. Sexuality rules operate in their own context.
There is a conflict between naturism and sexuality when sex gets injected into a public setting -- exhibitionists seeking attention by projecting sexuality without prior consent, voyeurs staring and objectifying others to reap sexual stimulation without consent, swingers soliciting partners for social sexuality or interjecting sexual themes or behaviour. These are just examples of intrusive behaviour which are all the more inappropriate in a naturist context because they break the pact of trust.
It is of course not that naturists are any less sexual than anyone else -- they just don't get confused by lack of clothing. They neither need clothing for their own dignity nor as a reminder to respect others', they don't impose their personal sexuality on others, and they don't need clothing as a way to keep separate activities separate.
The naturist mantra that "nudity doesn't equal sex" is merely a shorthand way to note that naturism is neither a sexual activity nor a part of the "adult entertainment" industry. A debate about coexistence of "lifestyles" merely highlights public confusion over the meaning of the word "lifestyle."
|
Edited by - agde on 02/18/2008 7:23:57 PM |
|
Country: France
| Posts: 252 |
|
|
|
go n nude
Forum Member
|
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 10:51:46 AM
|
Why the frell not ? Like heads on one's shoulders everybody,s got one, and like wise opinions everybody's got one, and for sure nudism encompasses all lifestyles as we see no one is trully excluded from enjoying social nude recreation if they are really respecting each other's right to wholesome, sociable,without sexual intentions, they'll coexsist without prejudice as they do and are intitled. Sexism has its place and it isn't Nudism, they enjoy! So many fear that's the hidden agenda with nudism and prevents many from it's enjoyment or just turns them off its true nonderogatory enjoyment. So what the frell do they care any way.
go n nude
|
|
Country: Canada
| Posts: 415 |
|
|
|
agde
Forum Member
|
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 4:36:18 PM
|
Good point. The key is no subversive sexual agenda. Our difference with textiles is that we know how to separate wardrobe from behaviour. Clothing involves all kinds of social signals -- status, authority, formality, wealth, clan, etc. Clothing signals can be used for everything from attraction to intimidation. Nudity signals what? Poverty? Sexual availability? In a naturist context, nudity signals nothing whatsoever. That's why any hint of a sexual or other "lifestyle" agenda puts everybody back in textile mode.
|
|
Country: France
| Posts: 252 |
|
|
|
plump_and_pretty
New Member
|
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 8:39:13 PM
|
Hi everyone I am new here and have to make this my first post. We live in NC we have been in the nude lifestyle for over 12 years. we are also Swingers I think i can answer this question as of why others don't want the two said in the same sentence. People still think of sex as Dirty where they don't think the same about being nude any more. Out of all the Swingers we know 100% are Nudist where as only about 50% of the Nudist are swingers. Swingers are no different than anyone else we just like sex a little more in some cases. The bigest thing is that most I say again MOST swingers know where swinging belongs and where it does not. hope to meet some of you this summer.
Jenni
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 4 |
|
|
|
go n nude
Forum Member
|
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 04:20:20 AM
|
Welcome to the forum Jenni, Many think there is a time and a place for everything,nudism has come long way in general exceptance Worldwide, and wholesome social nude recreation does not exclude anyone regardless of what their sexual orientation maybe,its not that sex is dirty its just that it belongs where it should be. To each their own, enjoying life Naturally.
go n nude
|
|
Country: Canada
| Posts: 415 |
|
|
|
Cookie
Forum Member
|
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 07:21:05 AM
|
Jenni:
Welcome, it is nice to hear a new opinion on an old subject.
My wife and I have been nudist for over 15 years, and we are nude as soon as we hit the house -365 days a year and we love it.
We have many nudist friends, and we generally have a party once a month a someones house, and that is even in the dead of winter here in the Northeast.
One of the couples we are friendly with and have know for over 3 years invited us to there house for a party about a year ago, and needless to say we thought everyone one of the group would be there.
Boy, were we surprised!!!
When we arrrived we did not see our usual gang of friends, and after we were introduced to everyone, approx 15 to 20 couples, we realized we were in for a diff. evening.
Yes, it was a swingers party!!
Believe it or not my wife and I found it interesting. We were not offended, but we found it interesting. There was not pressure to partake of any "activity", and we met a lot of nice people who enjoy this life experiance.
It is not for us, but if this is what makes one happy, and they are have happy home life, who am I to say it is not right.
If you are ever up in the Northeast, let us know and we will be more than happy to have the front door open.
We are here only for a short time, so let's have a good time.
Cookie
|
|
Country:
| Posts: 596 |
|
|
|
Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
|
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 11:50:43 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by agde
Let’s be clear. Naturism is inclusive and respectful. All ages, genders, cultures, races, creeds, etc are welcome and should feel absolutely safe, comfortable and serene about not having to guard against intrusive behaviour. Naturism merely removes the social contrivance that clothing is needed, particularly in public, to assure personal dignity and interpersonal respect. Put the other way around, naturism affirms that normal social rules can and do apply regardless of attire. It is a pact of trust at least one notch above the norm.
Sexuality, in contrast, is restrictive and based on consensual intrusion. It is restricted to adults and is governed by distinct rules that differ considerably according to such things as an individual’s upbringing, culture and creed. It is a distinct interpersonal activity involving complex rituals of adult personal consent, often driven by social status or power relationships, intrinsically linked to various adult combinations of physical gender, gender identity, and gender preference, and frequently reinforced by clothing. Sexuality rules operate in their own context.
There is a conflict between naturism and sexuality when sex gets injected into a public setting -- exhibitionists seeking attention by projecting sexuality without prior consent, voyeurs staring and objectifying others to reap sexual stimulation without consent, swingers soliciting partners for social sexuality or interjecting sexual themes or behaviour. These are just examples of intrusive behaviour which are all the more inappropriate in a naturist context because they break the pact of trust.
It is of course not that naturists are any less sexual than anyone else -- they just don’t get confused by lack of clothing. They neither need clothing for their own dignity nor as a reminder to respect others’, they don’t impose their personal sexuality on others, and they don’t need clothing as a way to keep separate activities separate.
The naturist mantra that “nudity doesn’t equal sex” is merely a shorthand way to note that naturism is neither a sexual activity nor a part of the “adult entertainment” industry. A debate about coexistence of “lifestyles” merely highlights public confusion over the meaning of the word “lifestyle.”
Agde, I think part of the problem is that there are several terms that are used interchangeably. Such as nudist, nudism, naturist, naturism and clothing optional.
I also think that part of the problem is that we have people trying too hard to divorce nudity for sex, that it reminds me of the saying “he doth protest his innocence too much.” We have some of those people here. As soon as anyone mentions sex or sexuality they “automatically” start in with how nudism/nudity doesn’t equal sex, and if one thinks/feels like this or that, that they’re not “true nudists” or are in it for the wrong reasons.
Forgetting it would seem that man is indeed a sexual animal and that just about everything we do whether we’re conscious of it or not is done to attract a potential mate.
Live Long and Prosper
Herman
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
|
|
|
Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
|
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 11:57:54 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by plump_and_pretty
Hi everyone I am new here and have to make this my first post. We live in NC we have been in the nude lifestyle for over 12 years. we are also Swingers I think i can answer this question as of why others don’t want the two said in the same sentence. People still think of sex as Dirty where they don’t think the same about being nude any more. Out of all the Swingers we know 100% are Nudist where as only about 50% of the Nudist are swingers. Swingers are no different than anyone else we just like sex a little more in some cases. The bigest thing is that most I say again MOST swingers know where swinging belongs and where it does not. hope to meet some of you this summer.
Jenni
Jenni, welcome to the site. I think you’re right in that for whatever reason a lot of people see sex as something “dirty” and should only be done at night, with the lights off and only in the missonary position. :-(
Live Long and Prosper
Herman
|
|
Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
|
|
|
sanua_chap
New Member
|
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 7:16:09 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy
Why the frell can’t a swinger also be a nudist? Why do the two lifestyles have to exclude the other? Why can’t an exhibitionist or voyeur also be a nudist?
As I think a number of people have already said: yes, of course a swinger can be a nudist.
But I think you need to define your terms a bit more precisely...
If by 'exhibitionist' you mean someone who likes being naked, and also enjoys other people looking at them, then, yes, I accept your point. I may not understand them, but then, I don't understand train spotters either.
On the other hand, if by 'exhibitionist' you mean someone who goes naked underneath a coat and then 'flashes' someone with the intention of causing them distress, then no, I don't see them as a naturist. They are behaving that way because they see their body as dirty, and they are not 'comfortable with their bodies' as you put it.
The trouble is, the same word is used to cover both types of person.
|
|
Country: United Kingdom
| Posts: 8 |
|
|
|
duneo
New Member
|
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 8:05:40 PM
|
ANYONE who likes to be nude in public is considered a nudist. Whether it be an exhibitionist or not. I like to where sexy wild EXTREME designs
Does this mean I am not a nudist? Of course not. I also like to be completely nude.
|
Edited by - Moderator on 04/12/2008 11:30:23 AM |
|
Country:
| Posts: 2 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Nudist-Resorts.Org Discussion Forum Bulletin Board Nudism Clothing Optional Resort Naturism Nude Beaches |
© 2002-2020 SUN |
|
|
|
Nudism & so called conflicting lifestyles
