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PeterRiden
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 Posted - 11/12/2008 : 12:35:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheWhiteCockatoo
Thanks Peter,
Especially when we're being "dissed" in other threads yet the attackers last message said: quote "I did do some research about your resort, I mean, if your resort is not "caravans by the river," don't you think it would have been better to chuckle to yourself and think "They'll be pleasantly surprised when they arrive at White Cockatoo?"
We also believed the prices quoted and the inclusions make it potentially excellent value for money, irrespective of whether it's March or not." unquote
Can't avoid the cross-posting with that one!
Tony
Well received, Tony!
And as you rightly mentioned "I believe Peter is charging a fair market rate for the facilities and services he provides, and looking from far downunder it appears possibly even more than fair".
And yes I believe it's fair for what we offer, yet, I'll equate to any complainer that even though it's quite modest for pricing, if such complainer thinks "Seriously, my main concern was that we as naturists are being over-charged for the privilege of going nude." yes if it's too much for you it has to do with the unprecedented privilege to be nude in a social environent. I'm still waiting for Allen to Go stroll NUDE in any other destination that prohibs nudity and let us know about those "surcharges. He won't and it's a mute point waiting for him to dare proving me right. It might have more to do with a local guy disgruntled with some destinations and at once ready to cross the ocean and go down under in saying about your fine resort that "I haven't been to your resort. Perhaps one day, I will." If I succeed to have him patron/visit your resort, my friend Tony, I'll be glad that in his eyes your prices are OK..;-)
By the way, At Ease With Nudity, is far more what we convey at THE GRAND BARN than the monikers "naturist" or "naturism". Some of our people could even be clothed, yet will not panic facing someone else Nude.
And I'll repeat that if we're still around it's certainly that we've had and still have those kind and friendly people who show us great support and understand the dynamics we've clearly both expressed in our posts.
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.com
{TGB Conceptor}: http://www.the-grand-barn.com
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sailawaybob
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/15/2008 : 12:05:57 AM
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Over the years I have belonged to several clubs and have visited numerous others, when membership went from 200. to almost 500. and then the fee for a camper I quit going, same with visiting other clubs ground fees that camping fees, and I agree that they don't have the crowd as a textile club or campground but 50. + dollars for a day of being nude isn't really a great deal. you can go to some of these USFS campground for 5.- 10. a night and if they aren't crowded especially during the weekday you might have your own private nudist resort
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go n nude
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/15/2008 : 11:33:40 AM
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Membership verses paying high cost of ground fees, 1year membership means one may visit 363 times if they close x-mas & New Years. At est.$40.00 per one day visit= $14,520.00. One year membership minisecule in comparison indeed. Some never close Bonus *80.00$. Membership does have its merits.
go n nude
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Teva
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/15/2008 : 11:53:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by go n nude
Membership verses paying high cost of ground fees, 1year membership means one may visit 363 times if they close x-mas & New Years. At est.$40.00 per one day visit= $14,520.00. One year membership minisecule in comparison indeed. Some never close Bonus *80.00$. Membership does have its merits.
go n nude
Membership does have its merits as does membership in AANR & TNS. They stand up for what most actual nudists believe in.
Teva
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/15/2008 : 3:17:04 PM
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Membership does have its privileges. However, you are not going to attract people to nudism if they have to pay exorbitant grounds fees for the privilege of being nude. The people you want to attract aren't members of any organization yet. I recall renting a place at - - for a week. As a member of AANR at the time, I got a 20% discount. When the discounted grounds fees were added to the unit rental cost, it became a very expensive vacation, particularly considering that this wasn't exactly a beach front resort. This doesn't serve to attract anyone to nudism.
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go n nude
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/16/2008 : 07:51:48 AM
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Ajo127 , As everything seems to be getting more exspensive, both textile and nude resorts are faced with high costs, on our last visit to one of upscale resorts in Fla. I was told after 3 visits in several years,if i wanted to visit again,i would need to join/membership. Now that will be an exspensive day visit for sure. Nude beaches are free, and they have the crowds and lack the facilities found at resorts. Some are willing to pay extra for that convenience and not be worried about many of the problems found on public beaches. When resorts do have problem with vacancies maybe they'll realize, they can include ground fee's or waive them if one stays there. I see even Theme parks will throw in park passes if one stays at their Resort. They have exspensive hotels to fill and admissions to boot. If one can save $150.00 a night esle where, they will, and do.
go n nude
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Teva
Forum Member
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Posted - 11/16/2008 : 11:20:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AJ0127
Membership does have its privileges. However, you are not going to attract people to nudism if they have to pay exorbitant grounds fees for the privilege of being nude. The people you want to attract aren't members of any organization yet. I recall renting a place at - - for a week. As a member of AANR at the time, I got a 20% discount. When the discounted grounds fees were added to the unit rental cost, it became a very expensive vacation, particularly considering that this wasn't exactly a beach front resort. This doesn't serve to attract anyone to nudism.
You don't HAVE to join a landed club (park or resort). Nonlanded clubs are way less expensive, but when you are a member, there is some variety. You don't always go to the same place to just lay out in the sun. A nonlanded club is sometimes more of a feeling of an extended family.
Just remember, when your local beach or state is at odds with legislation, those two organizations to serve to help fight. Been there, done that.
Teva
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lazarus
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/26/2009 : 3:01:10 PM
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Having read this thread and seeing so many views on the cost of visiting a nudist club or resort, I thought I would put in my two cents on the issue.
Having managed a small nudist campground for the past 5 years, I have some idea of the costs involved, and the revenue that come in over a year.
In our area, the busy season(where one can anticipate generating 80% of the year's revenue) is from June til Labour Day. In other words, approximately 12 weeks. During that 12 weeks, the campground has to bring in the bulk of its revenue. Our operating costs are about $36000. Membership fees account for $6000, leaving $30000 to be made up by visitors, both day visitors and overnight campers, plus seasonal site fees. Seasonal site fees generate $3000, leaving $27000 to be earned.
$27000 divided by 84 days equals roughly $322 per day.
At our rates, that works out to approximately 12 visitors per day(if there is no rain at all throughout the summer season).
And that doesn't happen. Also, weekdays do not bring very many people out. Weekends are when the bulk of visitors arrive.
So, realistically you have to figure instead of 84 days, that you have 24 days to generate the bulk of your revenue. Which means, there has to be $1125 coming per day on the weekends.
That works out to be 45/day(assuming no rainy weekends). Last year, we had close to 50% rain outs on our weekends.
Now, as someone suggested, we could lower rates and attract more volume. Been there, done that, took the bath.
We dropped rates for 3 years by 1/3. That should have generated a increased volume. It did, to some degree, but not enough to make up the lost revenue. It also brought in quite a number of looky-loos and other trouble makers. Therefore causing more work us, and less tranquillity for the regular visitors and members.
We could enlarge the grounds and put in more modern upscale facilities, but that is an economic loss from the get go.
To buy the adjoining property and double our grounds, would cost $200,000 for undeveloped land. To modernise the clubhouse facilities would cost $250,000. Add in the increase in property taxes, the financing costs and it can be seen that the numbers of visitors would have to increase to double just to cover the taxes and interests. It would be nice to pay down the principle, and also show a ROI(return on investment).
There isn't the volume of nudists out there(despite the rosy numbers from AANR and the FCN) to generate that income.
So in short, that is why nudists are paying ground fees that are higher than the costs of a KOA. All one has to do is compare the actual numbers of textile campers with the number of nudists to see why.
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sailawaybob
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/27/2009 : 12:09:07 AM
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lazarus I see your point that nudist resorts in some area have a limited amount of time to recoup their overhead even in the south some resorts are pretty vacant from September till spring but I just can't justify going camping at a resort that charges ground fees and camping fees that may cost me 30-50 dollars for a day when I can go to a KOA or most others for about $20. I even thought years ago about how neat it would be to open a nudist resort till I talked to Evan Bell of Bell Acres ( Georgia) about the expense and income factor , I changed my mind fast. I relize that the charges may be justified but are people willing to pay it especially with the economy the way it is. And than you got federal parks even though primitive can be $5. - $10. and some even free.
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Warmskin
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/27/2009 : 01:41:59 AM
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About being dissed, I get that wherever I go. Must be something about me or something. I found the rates to be reasonable at resort I frequent. I paid for a lower level of membership, and find that it's inexpensive in light of all the facilities I can use while I am there.
If I had a swimming pool, hot tub, exercise room, etc., etc., in my own home, I'd be paying more, a lot more than I do at the nudist place.
When you look the actual alternatives, a lot of nudist resorts start to look affordable.
"'Tis our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world."
George Washington
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AJ0127
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/27/2009 : 07:20:42 AM
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Lazarus makes a good point about the limited market for nudist facilities. I understand that they have to cover their fixed costs, which can be considerable. However, I wanted to distinguish between member-supported nudist clubs and resorts such as Club Orient, etc. I found that the resorts were very expensive and didn't provide the amenities that non-nudist resorts were offering. As for campgrounds, perhaps the truly cost competitive places will find that they will get enough business to cover their fixed costs and even turn a profit.
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lazarus
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/27/2009 : 12:28:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sailawaybob
lazarus I see your point that nudist resorts in some area have a limited amount of time to recoup their overhead even in the south some resorts are pretty vacant from September till spring but I just can't justify going camping at a resort that charges ground fees and camping fees that may cost me 30-50 dollars for a day when I can go to a KOA or most others for about $20.
I don't know of any KOA's that permit nudity. What you are paying for is the security of a place where nudity is permitted, and you are also,(unfortunately)paying the cost of being in a small market.
Boaters face the same costs.. with marina or yacht club mooring or dockage fees. Rather pricy in some areas. But the choice is leave your boat on shore, or pay the fees.
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lazarus
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/27/2009 : 12:32:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AJ0127
Lazarus makes a good point about the limited market for nudist facilities. I understand that they have to cover their fixed costs, which can be considerable. However, I wanted to distinguish between member-supported nudist clubs and resorts such as Club Orient, etc. I found that the resorts were very expensive and didn't provide the amenities that non-nudist resorts were offering. As for campgrounds, perhaps the truly cost competitive places will find that they will get enough business to cover their fixed costs and even turn a profit.
I wish we could cover our fixed costs every year. If not for volunteers to do things such as landscaping, trail cleanup, fence repairs, and building maintenance, we could not survive. I know that this year, I have about 80' of fence to rebuild(thanks to winter gales), a pool that decided to spring a leak, and sundry other repairs to make before we even open.
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PeterRiden
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/27/2009 : 4:01:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
quote:
Originally posted by sailawaybob
lazarus I see your point that nudist resorts in some area have a limited amount of time to recoup their overhead even in the south some resorts are pretty vacant from September till spring but I just can't justify going camping at a resort that charges ground fees and camping fees that may cost me 30-50 dollars for a day when I can go to a KOA or most others for about $20.
I don't know of any KOA's that permit nudity. What you are paying for is the security of a place where nudity is permitted, and you are also,(unfortunately)paying the cost of being in a small market.
Boaters face the same costs.. with marina or yacht club mooring or dockage fees. Rather pricy in some areas. But the choice is leave your boat on shore, or pay the fees.
Your valuable observations are well received, Lazarus.
Good to see you back here, my friend..;-)
The most important point (and I have insisted on it quite strongly) is reflected in you rightly stating "I don't know of any KOA's that permit nudity. What you are paying for is the security of a place where nudity is permitted...,"
This is a difference I insist on as the major opportunity given to our friendly visitors as compared to general admission. And the other good point is that, once price lowered, you've experienced a negligible influx of people you may do good without.
Thanks for understanding the factual equation, my friend..;-)
I have
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.com
{TGB Conceptor}: http://www.the-grand-barn.com
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lazarus
Forum Member
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Posted - 02/27/2009 : 6:35:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterRiden
Your valuable observations are well received, Lazarus.
Good to see you back here, my friend..;-)
The most important point (and I have insisted on it quite strongly) is reflected in you rightly stating "I don't know of any KOA's that permit nudity. What you are paying for is the security of a place where nudity is permitted...,"
This is a difference I insist on as the major opportunity given to our friendly visitors as compared to general admission. And the other good point is that, once price lowered, you've experienced a negligible influx of people you may do good without.
Thanks for understanding the factual equation, my friend..;-)
I have
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.com
{TGB Conceptor}: http://www.the-grand-barn.com
Nice to be here, Peter.
Sometimes I think it would be nice for the average nudist to be on the other side of the counter for a season. It would give them an entirely new perspective on the business end of nudism.
Although I have run Lilly Valley for Jim the past 5 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the operation of camps. For twenty years, my family ran a fishing camp in Northern Ontario.
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Naturist Resorts - are you being dissed?
