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Diger
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Posted - 09/07/2009 : 10:33:07 PM
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Warmskin, We have been to two resorts and several nude beaches in the southeast and like PABiker we have never been or seen anyone else treated like you discribed. Sorry for your experience but move on and find a better place.
Diger
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GeeWilly
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 Posted - 09/08/2009 : 1:48:34 PM
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With re: observations as "the impetus for making changes in resort policies" . . . eh? You mean like: Require folks to talk to you?!
Aren't cliques usually defensive mechanisms that serve to protect the fears of clique members? Which is to say that trying to be friendly with them is often not unlike spitting into a stiff wind.
Does it seem too easy to judge someone as "socially immature" or unintelligent or a "supremacist" simply because they do not open right up to you, a stranger? Warmskin, I think you will find, in any environment, people who are just not willing, at the time, to engage in conversation someone with whom they are not familiar. But doesn't that reluctance seem a specious foundation upon which to base sweeping generalizations with respect to their motives or character?
Hang in there, you'll find friendlier folks yet.
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Edited by - GeeWilly on 09/08/2009 1:49:55 PM |
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Warmskin
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Posted - 09/08/2009 : 5:50:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeWilly
With re: observations as "the impetus for making changes in resort policies" . . . eh? You mean like: Require folks to talk to you?!
Aren't cliques usually defensive mechanisms that serve to protect the fears of clique members? Which is to say that trying to be friendly with them is often not unlike spitting into a stiff wind.
Does it seem too easy to judge someone as "socially immature" or unintelligent or a "supremacist" simply because they do not open right up to you, a stranger? Warmskin, I think you will find, in any environment, people who are just not willing, at the time, to engage in conversation someone with whom they are not familiar. But doesn't that reluctance seem a specious foundation upon which to base sweeping generalizations with respect to their motives or character?
Hang in there, you'll find friendlier folks yet.
Some of your remarks are quite remote to what I have experienced over time. I think your statements that people be required to talk to me demean the situation and put it into the theater of the absurd.
What I am talking about is social inclusiveness, the kind I engage in all the time around strangers. If I can do that, many other could, too. You might get in touch with the fact that if you are not a well known social entity at this place, you are not always welcome into the little cliques that populate the resort. I have come across some nice folks, but they are few and far between. What you don't realize is that I make pointed efforts to introduce myself and say things that are germane to what is being said. Since I am not a known social entity, I don't rate. Simple as that. I was there, and you weren't.
Does is come even easier to speak well of groups of people who are too lazy to realize there are new faces, and that these new faces, whoever they are are just as worthy of being treated equally, or do you agree that new people should "know their place?"
That is is a continuing uphill battle to just get into any kind of conversation does not speak well of any resort. As I have said, if you read my previous messages, that I have been to a smaller resort where people are more outgoing and make it easier for the new folks to feel they are part of what they are paying for. The smaller resort charges more, and has fewer facilities, thus the attempt to use the larger place. Is this concept foreign to you, or are you at least partly understanding what I am saying?
As for my part, I'm no hypocrite. I readily talk with people, using their topics to respond to, and don't turn people away just because I don't know them. That is the human side of me; even the humanitarian side of me. Whoever you are at a social gathering of any kind, you will never see me turning away from you, if you are in the elite group, or one of the more humble folks. Everyone has something to say. Not everyone is willing acknowledge you. It takes intelligence and social maturity to see that a new face is not a nobody. The easiest thing to do is to sit in your comfort zone and ignore those that don't fit into your circle.
This is not a criticism of nudist resorts in general, but of the socially lazy people who unfortunately project far more than is good for nudism as a whole.
Yogi Berra said that you can observe a whole lot, just by watching. When I am on ignore, the only thing left to do is to observe. I don't know if you have ever read Professor Parkinson's well known books about human phenomena. He goes into this sort of thing quite scientifically.
By the way, you did not comment on the fact that when I went up to a skinny dipping spot, I had the opposite experience. The other people where I was, at a river, and I got into immediate, fun, and lengthy conversations. Hmmm, I wonder why that was. There were no cliques there, that is why. Aha!!! We were all just good old folks out for a nice day.
My observations stand not untrue.
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
James Madison
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Warmskin
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Posted - 09/08/2009 : 5:53:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Diger
Warmskin, We have been to two resorts and several nude beaches in the southeast and like PABiker we have never been or seen anyone else treated like you discribed. Sorry for your experience but move on and find a better place.
Diger
Thanks, Digers. The good thing is that when you hit a trough in the road, the only way from there is upward. I think next summer, I'll try the smaller resort. I've had better luck there!! I've had nothing but good luck when I visited the various California skinny dipping rivers, which I mentioned in my previous post. I met some of the nicest people there. I love bright, engaging folks.
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
James Madison
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Diger
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/08/2009 : 9:05:41 PM
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Warmskin,
I think that's the best thing to do. In the textile world I have seen the type you are talking about, but I have never dwelled on it cause they are not the type of people I'm looking to know anyway. Like I said move on they are not worth knowing anyway.
Diger
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SunTanMan
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/09/2009 : 10:39:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Warmskin
What you don't realize is that I make pointed efforts to introduce myself and say things that are germane to what is being said.
Warmskin,
Is it possible that perhaps you have become an "Energy Vampire"?
Good news is that the condition is problematic and can easily be cured.
Below is some "Energy Vampire" info that might be useful.
Best of luck,
STM
After a visit with an energy vampire, you barely have enough energy to watch tv - much less pursue your goals or take care of your responsibilities. The energy vampire's negative influences have consumed your positive energy.
How Energy Vampires Drain Your Spirit
Energy vampires drain positive energy in many ways, such as:
Intruding on your life, ignoring boundaries and privacy (energy vampires don't think of you).
Making big deals out of nothing. Energy vampires are often called "drama queens" because they can easily turn a broken nail into a Shakespearean tragedy. Negative energy spreads from everyday events.
Complaining constantly about their partners, jobs, children, bad luck, and illnesses. Energy vampires like to vent.
Criticizing your hair, appearance, job, children, partner, friends, and pets (energy vampires aren't positive).
Not taking "no" for an answer. Energy vampires don't consider your needs.
Being unrelentingly negative. Their negative energy is relentless, and energy vampires drain your positive energy by encouraging you to be negative, too.
Blaming everyone else for their problems (energy vampires don't take responsibility).
How Energy Vampires Drain Energy & Why You Feel Depressed After a Conversation
You know you've spent time with an energy vampire when you leave feeling depressed, exhausted, or sad. Energy vampires drain your positive energy for their own use. Energy vampires leave you feeling empty and sluggish – and to compensate or build positive energy you may eat, drink, shop, or sleep for hours afterwards.
Energy Vampires Need Your Positive Energy
Energy vampires come in all shapes and sizes: loud and aggressive, soft-spoken and shy, charming and seductive, pushy and overbearing. Energy vampires have energy leaks that they need to fill. It's up to you to stop energy vampires from draining your positive energy. Often energy vampires don't even realize they're bleeding you dry. Energy vampires have often suffered some sort of crisis, whether in childhood or adulthood, and they're compensating to get rid of their negative energy. Energy vampires may not be deliberately, maliciously stealing your positive energy -- but they're definitely not contributing to a fantastic relationship.
Read more: http://psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/stop_energy_vampires#ixzz0QcSjpORf
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Warmskin
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Posted - 09/09/2009 : 8:06:57 PM
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SunTanMan,
Your remarks are both inaccurate and personally insulting. You are in no position to render a fair and accurate judgment. Why? Because you are not a witness, and trying to pscyho-ananyze me is preposterous when it comes to making entries in the forum of discussion. If you have anything that actually relates to what my whole sentiment is about, I'm sure we would all like to taste the morsels that drip off your divine lips, symbolically speaking.
Even if your absurd statement were remotely near the edges of truth, how does a quiet person like me become what your naive statement suggests. All I do is say, "Hi," and look at your last post. So, according to you, no one should talk at all at a resort? That may sound sillier than even your statements, but I suppose you have some rather stilted view on exactly what we are allowed to say, by your strict rules. Maybe "Hi" is hogging everybody's time, according to your "expertise."
According to you, if saying, "Hi" takes too much of other people's time, then how can anyone say anything longer than a word that contains only one letter? By your vaunted word, Oh Master of All Etiquette, what is the sacred, secret word that you will allow us all to say.
If you support cliques, prefer to ignore newcomers, act indifferent to all but your bosom buddies, maybe your statements suggest that their author needs to take some more time to think.
SunTanMan, why don't you start your own resort, where you have to be a member of a noted clique to join? Of course, said cliques shall be capable of saying things like, "Oh yeah, did you see Suzi's new toenail polish?" If somebody acts in a way that can be described as cheerful to anybody, and not just a few chosen ones, that person could be thrown out bodily. I can just see it now.
If you have other statements, such as ones that actually reflect reality, please share. Meanwhile, lay off the psycho-babble books.
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
James Madison
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Warmskin
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/09/2009 : 8:15:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Diger
Warmskin,
I think that's the best thing to do. In the textile world I have seen the type you are talking about, but I have never dwelled on it cause they are not the type of people I'm looking to know anyway. Like I said move on they are not worth knowing anyway.
Diger
Quite so, Digers; good show. One thing is that we have choices, and I'll be making mine next summer. I am fortunate to live where there are many nudist places.
I grew up in a social climate where people were more open, with nude hearts, if you will. After reading all the normal brochures that any company puts out, one would think that nudists are the friendliest folks on earth, and they should to some extent, given that we all belong to a small but potentially wonderful group. However, brochures at some point don't tell you everything.
That is why a forum like this one is invaluable, in that you can hear so many opinions about just one facet of nudism.
I find it rewarding to see a resort, with a lot of help from its patrons. make the brochure come to life, and truth.
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
James Madison
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Admin
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Posted - 09/09/2009 : 9:49:16 PM
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Warmskin, I don't think SunTanMan was meaning to insult you, but if you've never heard of the energy vampire concept you might take it that way. If he was insulting you he wouldn't have provided the detailed information and link.
This thread is helpful, since it is beginning to touch on a deeply felt problem in the nudist community regarding single males.
There are times when visiting nudist resorts, especially at night in the hot tubs, where a couple can tell a nearby single male "needs" to talk to them. He may skip the part where he would watch patiently for an invitation by eye contact or smile, and simply aggressively insert himself into the conversation by any number of methods. This type of male is not concerned that the couple may have intended to spend the time on each other. Some of us have been in the situation where being polite and engaging the single male resulted in the entire time in the hot tub being used up in this conversation. Sometimes there is an element of a pickup agenda that just makes it more creepy. There is a heavy handedness that occurs less often in interactions between couples.
Such a male could be an "energy vampire", mandating others to talk to him, or just be on a mission to manufacture a threeesome, in other words, he's on a swinger lifestyle agenda.
It only takes a couple of these encounters to make a couple shy away from encouraging more of them.
Perhaps the places you've been lately have had a history of such personalities, and you have inherited their baggage. In any case, a single male would do well to study the list provided by SunTanMan, and to be sure his behavior is not ringing any of those bells.
To avoid getting caught up in this, you might try a simple hello and a comment when the cues are present, eye contact, etc. Then break off, and let them be. Show them they can interact with you without getting pulled into a long conversation every time. Tread lightly on their vacation time. They might not at the moment be interested in lengthy conversations with new friends.
If you do work this out, write a book for single male nudists, it would be an instant success.
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Warmskin
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Posted - 09/10/2009 : 02:29:58 AM
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Thank you for your clarification, Admin. My apologies to you, SuntanMan for my angry words.
If I wrote a book about the plight of the single guy at a nudist resort, it might revolutionize the way things are at a resort.
As I stated in this and other threads, I come across as the late Mr. Rogers, not a Jerry Lewis. Hahaha. I'm soft spoken, and will listen endlessly in a conversation pool, to a conversation next to me. Then, when I have something relevant to say, I'll chime in. I don't sound desperate, for I agree with the observation that if one is too adhesive in conversation and nervously gets too dominant and afraid to let go, then, yes, others will not want that in their life.
To wit, I have a friend in the next state, who will go into excruciating detail about every detail in his day. It gets to be too much for me, to the point that I often screen my calls. I'm not like that, at all. I laugh when they do, am silent when they are, etc. I do all the things that I think will work, but most of the time, they stick to themselves. My statements are short, and are engineered to welcome them back with their own input. Quite frankly, I bore myself, so why bore others, too? So, that is why I pay particular attention to what is being said in a warm pool.
While I can be prolific in writing, (as with my many posts in this forum), like many other introverts, I don't talk a whole lot. I am mostly listening to others. My facial expressions are friendly, in sync with what others are saying, and understanding. So, when I finally do open up with something relevant, I will be heard for a phrase, after which the others stay exclusive with their clique. Soon after, I find their backs face me. That may actually mean nothing, and it may just be random body language. I do see patterns though, so it's not just one little group, but a whole bunch of them. They love their "regulars" and put off folks they don't know. It reminds me of the old kids' tree houses -- no one can get in the house, unless they like you. Of course, that is childish, and does not contribute to expanding your number of friendships, yet that is what happens all too often. If you are always included in conversational groups in a pool, given that you are part of a couple, then it might be hard for you to feel what I feel, not to mention other single men feel, too.
That happens in a lot of other groups, but for nudism, that is not helpful. It doesn't promote good will, and the whole resort takes a hit, in the eyes of a newbie. It's not just me; I'm not impressed with myself or my ego. I'm a guy who loves concepts over myself. I can imagine that some new married customers at a resort might get the same treatment, but will fare better than the single guy.
Perhaps the people there see me as an opportunist, lurking around, sneaking peeks at women. Who knows? The irony of it is they may never find out, unless they are courageous enough to get outside their cliques and find out for sure. I know I'm not a hot social item, but still, I am not a nobody either.
As I mentioned earlier, the well-known observations of Professor Parkinson factor into this quite well. He was a keen observer about groups of people, both in business and social settings.
As I have said earlier in this thread, I've had much better luck in other places and won't waste more space about that. I think Diger's thoughts are useful and instructional, and I'll follow up on their advice.
I couldn't believe it. I received a call today from this resort to renew my membership. It is this a sign from above? Hahaha. Should I tell them my reasons for not renewing? Hmmm. You folks tell me.
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
James Madison
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Country: USA
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Warmskin
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/10/2009 : 02:37:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PABiker
Just returned from visiting our club for the day. Being a holiday weekend we met lots of new people including plenty of single men. All were well behaved and welcomed as friends. It seems maybe you just need a new club to frequent.
I kinda chuckled at your reference to the folks there as "frequenters of bars." Truth is, once the sun goes down my wife and I can either be found at the poolside bar or in the hut tub. Either way we generally strike up conversations with anyone nearby. Once we met a gentleman (single) who in conversation told us he worked for the NSA. I jokingly said, "oh, I guess I don't need to tell you anything about myself then, you can go back and check your files." I'm sure he hears dumb comments like that all the time and probably rolled his eyes inwardly even though he just smiled. But back on topic I've never seen anyone shunned from a conversation at Sunny Rest.
As far as superiority complexes go, no one will ever accuse me. Although I cleaned up my appearance a year ago (my beard no longer rests on my belly and my hair no longer reaches my buttocks) I still have hair down my back and a more acceptable beard. Add ink and earings and I won't come across as your accountant or pastor. But I still get a warm greeting wherever I travel in the nudist world from staff, other guests, and families. I'll never understand why appearance counts for so much in some places. I even had a little girl insist I was Santa Clause the other year in the airport. I put my finger to my lips, looked around as if to see if anyone was watching, and said "don't tell everyone." Then I sat down with her and her Grandmother to hear her wish list.
I guess my point is, the resort in question certainly doesn't sound like the best place for you. But don't paint them all with a broad brush. We have a great crew of regulars and we love to have visitors at Sunny Rest. If you ever visit gimmee a holler. I'll buy the first round or have the chef make 2 orders of wings in my level of hot.
Hi PA,
It's hard to know what terms to call these folks. So, I made that one up.  Now, you I could really like, in that I like folks with a real identity or soul. Most of my friends could not be placed into a category, and might not like each other if they ever met. So, I seem to collect people from all walks of life, but I like the ones who have interesting takes on life.
If I lived over your way, I'd be interested in checking your favorite place. I think it was Groucho Marx who said that he would never join a club that accepted him as a member. I'm not that bad, but it is well to remember funny remarks like that.
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
James Madison
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GeeWilly
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/16/2009 : 6:00:54 PM
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Warmskin, your diatribes with respect of "self-absorbed" groups of people at nudist venues seem to be demanding that folks stand ready to talk to you at length whenever it is your pleasure to address them. It appears both Admin and SunTanMan read you as potentially, at least, an energy vampire. Someone who doesn't honor another's privacy ("energy vampires don't think of you").
Whether you look like Mr. Rogers notwithstanding, I submit that no person, no couple, no group of people shuld be required (upon penalty of expulsion?) to warmly respond to the uninvited intervention of a single, adult male nudist. Now basic civility or courtesy may allow for a short acknowledgement of the attempt to intercede into another's privacy. The nature of such response (or the absence of it) in conjunction with its associated body language, awareness of which you've noted, Warmskin, should instantly apprise you of your next step.
None of us knows you personally, Warmskin, so, of course, we cannot discern other than from your postings whether you are judgmental of others, trying too hard, an energy vampire, or truly just a frustrated Mr. Rogers. But we do not need a professor to substantiate that whenever you find fault, it seems to be that of the other folk.
Just accept them as they are . . . or as Diger said, ". . . move on they are not worth knowing anyway." When you do find your group, remember the adage: "Make people like themselves a little better, my son, and I guarantee they will like you very much."
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Warmskin
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Posted - 09/16/2009 : 8:18:55 PM
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Not so at all, GW. You weren't there; I was. Here is the reality: I make it a point to try to say hello to folks that might seem to be receptive to such an initiative. Most are not even responsive to just that, let alone conversations. Given that everyone else is talking to their friends, in tight circles, it is hard to talk at all. I should say, I'm a bit shy, and can listen to great length to the talkers. I only try to enter a conservation where I have something that is on topic. I keep my words short if I don't know somebody.
If you think I'm a conversation hog, you're incorrect, and your words would better be directed at the real time hogs. You cannot be shy and at the same time be a non-stop talker. They're mutually exclusive. You may be mistaking my ample posts here for being the same way with my spoken words. If you are, you are incorrect in that assumption.
So, what you are saying, GW, is that I should never talk to anybody unless directed to do so? That sounds contrary to the purpose of being with other people. I don't see the logic in your statments. I hope you don't mean that. Otherwise, no one would ever say anything at a nudist resort.
As for your statement that I am at fault here, because I said hello in passing to some folks that seemed possibly open to a quick hello. Again, you propose a type of resort that is more military sounding than social. Should I stand like a soldier, and speak only when spoken to? While others talk at greatest length to their coteries, I should remain silent like a child back in the 1920s. For that matter, why should anybody go to a nudist resort, if they must take a vow of silence? Again, your stance is in contrast to the meaning of being together at a resort. We might as well all go our own little resorts.
What you are proposing is that that there are two tiers of resort clientele. One, privileged to share thoughts, experiences, and feelings, at great length, and the other class would have to remain silent because they don't fit in, no matter how cheerful they are and polite. I can see no other way you could mean what you said.
Single folks have feelings, too. You seem to not remember that. I already resigned from the place in question, as my membership came up for renewal earlier this summer.
Apparently you failed to read an earlier message wherein I stated that I found much better luck at a traditional Sierra skinny dipping hole. There, there were no assignments of the right to say hello to someone you didn't know. Being friendly just happens in the Sierra, where people are viewed as assets, not violators of the established cliques.
As mentioned before, after my two visits to this place earlier this summer, I had lengthy conversations with the other folks there. So, your theory that I am a vampire is absurd on the face of it. If I were, why do I have better luck both at a smaller nudist resort, and a river beach? According to your words, I'm at fault, so wouldn't it be logical that my "problem of saying hello to people" rang true at other places, too? The trouble with that blind analysis is that I have the opposite happen to me at these other places.
Ask any troubleshooter where the problem is, and he/she would tell you that the problem stays or goes with the party responsible for it. My whole career taught me that, a thousand times over.
Given the facts, as opposed to assumptions, you might want to think it over, before you judge.
I very much the idea of nudist resorts, but I don't support arrogance, and anti-social behavior. We are all nudists, and should have more in comradeship, yet we stand divided over simple social skills like saying, "Good morning" or a simple smile and the word, "Hi." If that is a huge problem, Heaven help us all.
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."
Thomas Jefferson
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GrayWolf
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/17/2009 : 5:47:27 PM
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And how do you compare this to your encounters in a textile KOA or state park campground? Pretty much the same I'd guess. May not have much to do with clothes?
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Warmskin
Forum Member
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Posted - 09/17/2009 : 8:00:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GrayWolf
And how do you compare this to your encounters in a textile KOA or state park campground? Pretty much the same I'd guess. May not have much to do with clothes?
Interesting question, GrayWolf. I have had much better luck in clothed situations where I have never met before, the people I encountered. People see me as non-threatening, and find me easy to talk with. Most places where I have been had no shortage of genial conversations, even store owners, others at restaurants, airports, even, if you believe, a guy in a restroom stall when I was at Crater Lake in Oregon. The friendly folks are where you meet them.
The clothing facet of the social world might be an interesting study to see what effects is has on others. I could suppose that when we are nude, we are more vulnerable and sensitive to how we feel about others, even at a nudist resort. That is only a supposition on my part.
Still, though, I find myself agreeably juxtaposed to others in unorganized venues such as rivers and ocean beaches. Perhaps they present more variations in people, and of course, there are no cliques there. It's hard to set them up in just one afternoon. So, there is more equality at beaches in that respect. Maybe equality in social situations is where I do best. By that, I mean no preset ideas about who is who. This is especially true from what I have experienced in the remote spots in the mountains, where people are truly an asset. Being in a natural setting seems to present people in their best light.
Just a few more thoughts.
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."
Thomas Jefferson
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Had my fill of a nudist resort
